University Applications ........

[mummyofteens]

Can someone please explain to me how university place offers are already been given to some young people when the closing date for applications is not until the middle of January. Most of my son's friends haven't even submitted their application yet :/

I think the message that comes out of all of this, despite what schools, colleges and other organisations may have us believe, is that you have to focus on your A2s and get the best grades you can on those - rather than looking for points from other things to count. They can be a useful back up, I suppose, but shouldn't be relied upon as a way of getting entry/accepted.

Yep world challenge push it as something you can at least include on your personal statement, seem to remember mention of UCAS points. We went to a meeting, some of DD's friends are doing it next year. I saw through all the talk about raising funds to pay for it and said no. Most of the parents are left to fund 3/4 of the trip, that's about £3500 at least which I couldn't afford. DD wants to do a gap year and do some voluntary work and paid work along the way. Won't cost much more that the month long world challenge.

It would appear you can get points from a World Challenge expedition www.world-challenge.co.uk/expeditions/about_wc_asdan.asp

World Challenge doesn't automatically result in UCAS points.

The student has to do a Certificate of Personal Delopment (I think), which involves writing up the whole experience.

It is only useful for universities that accept mainly on points.

The idea of WC is that the parents don't just pay for it. Part of the challenge is raising the money, and this is stressed by the organisers.

It is the Certificate of Personal Effectiveness (CoPE) level 3.

"The CoPE Level 3 has recognition from UCAS and attracts an offer of 70 UCAS points!

The CoPE is a more rigorous version of the UA in which portfolio evidence will be moderated to ensure it meets the standard required for the six assessed skills of; working with others, improving own learning and performance, problem solving, research, discussion and oral presentation.

Due to the close nature of the World Challenge programme with the skills assessed you will find plenty of opportunities to fulfil your portfolio of evidence without it becoming an additional burden. However, you do need to be committed as most of this will also have to be done in your own time.

Your World Challenge manager will advise you on what to put in your portfolio during the expedition programme and will provide access to the relevant information online. World Challenge will internally moderate the portfolio to ensure the standard is appropriate before it is externally moderated by ASDAN when you return from expedition.

The World Challenge administration and ASDAN registration and certification cost will be charged to the individual participant.

"

From the World Challenge website.

My DS1 went through this last year.

He put in his application just after half-term, and he received one offer virtually by return of post. He was invited to a couple of interviews and they both offered before Christmas. Another university invited him for interview in the Spring term, but he declined given that he had a first choice offer already and good insurance. His final place didn't offer until April, although they did give him a university logon back in October.

I don't think you can read into very much. All you can do is go by the experience of others, but even that isn't foolproof 'in the current climate'.

The main strategic advice is to leave your application until after the Oxbridge deadline if you are not applying to either of these places. This means that rush hour for applications is the week or two after half-term.

If you feel you are not able to express yourself fully in your personal statement (eg because you are trying to appeal to five places at once), then feel free to contact the admissions tutor (student, not parent) shortly after your form arrives on their desk.

My DS1 went through this last year.

He put in his application just after half-term, and he received one offer virtually by return of post. He was invited to a couple of interviews and they both offered before Christmas. Another university invited him for interview in the Spring term, but he declined given that he had a first choice offer already and good insurance. His final place didn't offer until April, although they did give him a university logon back in October.

I don't think you can read into very much. All you can do is go by the experience of others, but even that isn't foolproof 'in the current climate'.

The main strategic advice is to leave your application until after the Oxbridge deadline if you are not applying to either of these places. This means that rush hour for applications is the week or two after half-term.

If you feel you are not able to express yourself fully in your personal statement (eg because you are trying to appeal to five places at once), then feel free to contact the admissions tutor (student, not parent) shortly after your form arrives on their desk.

I know in theory they say it will be financed by fund raising but in practise it never is. You'd have to be out begging bag packing every weekend to get enough money to fund £4,500. I thought it was a total rip off. There are cheaper ways of doing voluntary work abroad.

Blimey, £4500?????

Ridiculous. How much do the organisers make out of this?

Kids would be better off staying in the UK and seeing how the other half lived here, tbh. Every 50 miles we have a pocket of poverty, crime and deprivation.

I remember having a strange points/grades offer. I needed a minimum of a C in Chemistry and a C in Geography but a certain number of UCAS points which was more than those grades. In any event I would have only needed my 2 C's because I had 2 Grade 8s in music and my existing AS levels. It was highly confusing....

The WC thing sounds a total rip off to me. What's wrong with DofE?

Yes, £4500 at least. We asked the organisers, how they realistically expect such an amount to be raised and they said well there is plenty of part time work in this area. In other words, do some fundraising but expect the kids to work to pay the rest. There was no way they could earn that much in the time limit.

Most of DD's friends that are going are the ones with wealthy parents. I'm sure it's a fantastic experience but...

DS2's WC is costing £1,200 - all (supposedly) to be paid for by fund-raising but I haven't seen much evidence of this yet.

Where are the going for only £1200?

Iceland

To be fair, Iceland is not the 'full' world challenge in that you are there for a third of the time and don't do a community project.

Still, £1200 is very reasonable for that length of time in Iceland. A lot of Geography trips are that for 5 days.

My older ones have been to Iceland, and I imagine my younger ones will go to. It is a fab place to go, and very reasonable on group rates.

OK, I have been told that we wouldn't take World Challenge into account when deciding to accept candidates, but other courses at other universities who recruit solely on the basis of points might do this.

I have also been told we are looking more closely at personal statements and they have to be carefully crafted and make copious detailed references to an applicant's understanding of the subject and commitment to the course.

Give us a clue where you are, BM!!

Re your lists of subjects 'acceptable' to universities, amusing and informative though it is, would it not be helpful for universities to actually tell schools and/or Michael Gove to stop encouraging pupils to take unacceptable subjects if they want to apply to 'top'universities????

Fortunately my DCs are/were all at highly selective grammar school where they are not even allowed a sniff at subjects such as Tourism etc but I feel other children are not so fortunate.

As for Latin (aka independent school = clever) etc , I would rephrase that as Latin (aka independent school = parents who can pay fees and not necessarily clever).

Sorry, meant to say that was to Boffinmum.

A very typical 94 Group university.
That's all I'm saying. I used to help with admissions at an elite university until quite recently as well.

We do tell schools and applicants these qualifications are not as useful as a preparation for university work as the ones in the Cambridge list, but we are so often ignored. People are also welcome to ring up and discuss things like this early on in the process.

The best thing applicants can do for themselves IMO is to go to an university Open Day or widening participation event before they choose what they are going to study in Years 12 and 13, and talk to lecturers and admissions officers about the suitability of any qualifications they are considering.

The next best thing is to mix frequently with bright applicants from other schools and colleges, as this gives a better idea of the kind of people you will be seeing at university and the overall standard of work, as opposed to getting an inflated idea of your own abilities from a poor teacher (if you are unlucky).

Don't just rely on your own school.

Yes, Boffinmum, you don't need to tell me that :)

But there are many parents on here (eg BecauseIamWorthIt) whose children have been encouraged to take qualifications such as the Extended Project only to find it's not worth an awful lot in the university admissions procedures, even though, no doubt, they have been told otherwise at school.

There have also been many threads where secondary school teachers have insisted that all GCSEs are equal etc etc and that anyone who suggests otherwise are just being, for want of a better word, an intellectual snob. All very interesting but the universities and schools should get their acts together and tell pupils and their parents the truth.

Disclaimer: obvs pupils don't only go to school, take GCSEs etc to go to university, but for those who do want to go and do want to study an academic subject.......:)

Thankfully, the EPQ was very much an 'accompaniment' to DS1's key subjects, all of which are classified as 'good' subjects - English Lit, History and Philosophy. And to be fair to DS1's college, they never tried to sell/oversell the EPQ to us - I have just been surprised by how some universities will accept it/the points gained for it, whereas others dismiss it, despite the work/achievement.

I agree BM, that consideration about universities/courses should begin much earlier, and I will be encouraging DS2 to do this. But we didn't know this with DS1, which makes me cross.

And we're currently steering DS2 to his A level choices at the moment, very mindful of what he needs to avoid!

I think if you have genuinely been badly advised and there is a mismatch between your qualifications and what the university expects, there is a case for your DS/DD ringing up the admissions team and asking for advice.

There are sometimes workarounds.