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Guest post: “I set out to find out: how do women deal with slang on their own terms”

89 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 12/11/2019 14:53

I’ve been researching slang and throwing it into dictionaries for forty years. I’m still at it and have no intention, prior to crashing forward onto the keyboard, of stopping. But while I’ve been able to answer a few questions – e.g. fuck does not come from fornicate under command of the King, and shit doesn’t mean store high in transit –the one has always eluded me is this: what is the relationship of women to slang? We know, all too well, about women in slang and we need only one word to cover all the others: misogyny. But how about women and slang?

There are maybe 10,000 woman-related terms in the English vocabulary, if you include the vagina (1500 words alone, the same as the penis), the breasts, heterosexual and lesbian intercourse and the language of commercial sex. It’s all about the ‘male gaze’: is she sexy or prudish, is she pretty or plain, is she complaisant or argumentative.

For many users – experts and amateurs alike – this is as it should be. Surely slang epitomizes what the linguist Dale Spender, who was looking at every variety of English, called a ‘man-made’ language. Its obsessions – sex (and sex work) and the giblets we do it with, intoxication by drink or drugs, insults, racism, crime and a range of terms that are about as far from ‘woke’ as one could imagine – are seen as male preoccupations. Caring, sharing and compassion: no thanks. And love? Oh FFS! Around 140,000 terms to date, and every one coined by a bloke.

But slang is noteworthy for mocking rules. Its primary characteristic, in my opinion, is sedition, taking the piss, in its own coarse words. So why should received wisdom actually be wise?

Eighteen months or so ago I set out to find out: how do women deal with slang on their own terms. In my book Sounds & Furies: the love-hate relationship between women and slang, I’ve tried to see whether there actually exists a women’s slang. A female-created, female-used vocabulary that runs in parallel to the ‘man-made’ version. I’d like to proclaim victory, but on the whole I can’t. We have plentiful evidence of women using slang ever since the first small glossaries appeared, around 1530, but if there is a woman’s slang, then, frustratingly, it hasn’t emerged. Or not for me.

It's true that slang has never featured in ‘polite’ society. But that’s what makes it ‘polite’. Women were not meant to use slang, let alone invent it, which meant that those who did have traditionally been outside that world: sex workers, fishwives (thus ‘Billingsgate’ as a synonym for obscenity), entertainers and so on. It also helped badge a succession of ‘new women’: as well as smoking, riding bicycles and, heaven forfend, having sex, they also talked slang.

On the whole they used the same words as the men. But does that make such words ‘man-made’? How do we know whether a man or woman coined a term? Even the ‘F-word’ might have first emerged from female lips, very possibly as ‘Fuck off!’

Of course if this is so important, why has it been left untouched for so long? In short, ease of access. If slang itself is hard enough to research — at least until relatively recently — then the use of slang by women, already excluded from the centres of power, is even harder to nail down. This, I would suggest, is changing.

Today slang seems to be available across the female world. Social media is pretty much run by young women. Slang comes naturally. A core word like selfie may be mainstream now, but it started in slang world. On fleek, looking good, was associated with a teenage coiner, Peaches Monroe.

Finally, a hat-tip to Mumsnetters, whose own in-house vocabulary needs no introduction. But from the lexicographer’s point of view it is showing a take on slang that is something new. Take what some might term the considerate (and others the passive-aggressive) AIBU (am I being unreasonable?) which creates a number of answers: YABU (you are…), YANBU (you are not…) and so on. Can we really imagine men creating an equivalent? Perhaps women-only language does exist after all.

Sounds & Furies: the love-hate relationship between women and slang is available on Amazon

OP posts:
Badbilly · 13/11/2019 17:06

Surely wherever women have been the dominant sex in any particular place, usually the work place, then the slang would have been invented and used by women. I’m sure that 18th and 19th century women working in the dark satanic mills would have developed their own slang, but there were just never any men around to hear it. Just as miners ( a male dominated industry) and the Navy has had loads of slang words that have found there way into mainstream language its fair to say that as many slang words have been “invented “ by women, but just by the way the world was structured they had far less chance of being recorded and used in the mainstream world.

However, in this world of social media it is much more of a level playing field in this regard, as the examples people have given about mumsnet words and phrases that can escape into the wild quite easily.

Chaotica · 13/11/2019 17:48

Thank goodness a man has arrived to explain how women use language. What a relief.

Patronising attitude aside, how is this project ever going to work? Discovering how women engage with slang on their own terms is going to be impossible in principle for a man unless he's eavesdropping, and then he won't be aware of context. Perhaps eavesdropping is what he should have stuck to doing.

I have to say 'wankbadger' is an excellent term I learned on MN. I don't use it enough.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 13/11/2019 17:51

Discovering how women engage with slang on their own terms is going to be impossible in principle for a man

Exactly. Like no man is ever going to know what it’s like to be in a women-only space.

Schrodinger’s Women Grin. As soon as the man walks in the situation changes.

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 13/11/2019 17:56

Just read the Guardian link.

FWIW and OTOH have been in use on the internet since the early 90s, if not before - I'm not sure why the author thinks they're MN inventions.

Chaotica · 13/11/2019 18:33

Schrodinger's women Grin

APerkyPumpkin · 13/11/2019 21:44

Is this like when a writer realises a deadline is looming and instead of handing the job over to a woman, just flops over onto Mumsnet as they are quite fucking rude women aren't they, they will help the writer get the job done for free?

Nah mate, why not call your editor, and admit you should never have got the gig?

StillWeRise · 13/11/2019 22:10

fanjo, surely

StillWeRise · 13/11/2019 22:11

OTOH, fuck off to the far side of etc etc was coined by Malcom Tucker

Badbilly · 13/11/2019 22:39

Maybe modern slang can be traced back to a known single person source, but when we are talking about “traditional “ slang, it origin and etymology are more vague, and lexicographers can only trace its first use in print, whereas the actual verbal use of the slang could predate this by decades or even centuries.

So how can he state with such certainty that most slang originated from Men?

When such words as “fuck” can hardly be traced back to a specific century, or even a specific language group, then how can he so solidly claim that most slang originated from men?

As previous posters have stated, the female slang would have stayed within all- female groups and activities, and although they would have undoubtedly existed, they just never made it into the wider vocabulary.

nilcarborundum · 14/11/2019 00:00

My favourite is ODFOD! Wink

UnaOfStormhold · 14/11/2019 08:08

Also feeling very patronised by the OP. Have you considered the possibility that, like with so many inventions and discoveries, women's role gets airbrushed out of the record. It wouldn't surprise me if many of the terms you describe as being created by men were actually used by women first but, as happens even today in meetings across the world, only get attention when men start using them. YABVU.

Datun · 14/11/2019 08:38

Also feeling very patronised by the OP. Have you considered the possibility that, like with so many inventions and discoveries, women's role gets airbrushed out of the record.

Exactly.

You've only got to be around the same group of women for a period of time for slang to develop. As a shortcut. As a coded explanation/description.

So maybe one of the reasons why men can't find all the slang words that 'come from women', is because they weren't meant to? For example, several friends and I have certain words for certain types of men, which I would absolutely not share on here. They're not exactly complimentary. But we all know precisely what they mean.

In terms of Mumsnet, it's the biggest gathering of women in history. It's unsurprising that its own language has developed.

HTH.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 14/11/2019 09:11

So maybe one of the reasons why men can't find all the slang words that 'come from women', is because they weren't meant to?

Absolutely. Phrases, references - every group has them. The OP might well have overheard women using slang phrases & had no idea what he was hearing.

ginghamstarfish · 14/11/2019 09:52

So this 'guest post' is really just a book advertisement?

MyMajesty · 14/11/2019 09:59

Mansplaining (OP )

The guy's written a book? Must remember to not buy it.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 14/11/2019 10:52

So this 'guest post' is really just a book advertisement?

Way back when Sandi Toksvig did a guest post encouraging MNers to vote for WEP, it coincided with their tweeting in support of a certain violent male prisoner being allowed to move to a women's prison. I remember the thread was flooded with questions about this and we were all somewhat shocked and disappointed when Sandi didn't come back to engage with us. MNHQ explained at that point that guest posters could not reasonably be expected to follow up after having their say.

That turned into an epic thread, though, and I for one credit it with kick-starting my awareness of the problems with transactivist ideology. So guest posters do have their uses, even if they plop and run.

satanstoenailsandwich · 14/11/2019 12:43

“There are around 1,750 slang words for sex over the last 500 years,” Green says, “and I would suggest at least 1,700 are from a male point of view.”

This is the problem I have. Who is Jonathan Green to decide what's a male and a female point of view? I take he has decided that the genteel love making style terms were coined by women and the coarser words by men? Men like banging so they invented the term banging, that kind of thing. Isn't that just incredibly patronising?

EmpressLesbianInChair · 14/11/2019 12:53

It's 'gender' in a nutshell really isn't it? The delicate little flowers on one side, the vast hairy prongs on the other.

Incidentally the Vagina Anthem by Hungry Hearts has some slang in it (and is just a really, really great song).

TanteRose · 14/11/2019 13:56

Perhaps women-only language does exist after all

Ya think?

Cringe!
Hmm

SlightlyWizened · 14/11/2019 18:49

Loving the vagina anthem

EmpressLesbianInChair · 14/11/2019 18:54

Loving the vagina anthem

Best running song EVER.

Shannith · 14/11/2019 21:09

Do you ever wonder if when MNHQ get pitched "guest posts" they have an internal competition to find the biggest load of wank they can chuck to us vipers to have fun with and rip into tiny little shreds?

I bet they do.

Come on MNHQ, spill.

Someone won a massive Ginfor finding this one didn't they?

APerkyPumpkin · 14/11/2019 21:51

Knowing that he is desperate for women to tell him where to go in strong slang terms, just makes us more polite.

Smile
Windygate · 15/11/2019 04:11

What on earth made MNHQ think that inviting a guest poster to mansplain slang to a predominantly female forum in his very patronising style was a good idea?

AnyMinuteNow · 15/11/2019 10:37

I think he asked so he could speak on womans hour and feel he knew what he was on about

Jane garvey is supporting the theory all slang came from men