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Guest post: "What we know about porn is based on men - that needs to change"

79 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 16/11/2016 11:19

Last month, the largest ever survey of UK women's views and experiences of mainstream online pornography was launched, www.womenonporn.org.

The project seeks to capture the range of women's views on mainstream online pornography - whether they use it regularly, occasionally, or not at all, have accidentally been exposed to it, or have partners who use it.

I came to this research through my experience delivering specialists Sex and Relationships Education (SRE) in secondary schools and a decade spent at a London based Rape Crisis Centre, designing and delivering sexual violence prevention work with young people.

The work was important and effective, but the ways in which some of the messages were being taken up by the young people were worrying. I became aware that the focus on sexual consent and the realities of sexual violence meant that we were inadvertently feeding into something positioning women as people whose sexual selves were acted on, rather than as sexual agents who could and did act through their bodies and out into the world.

We know very little about women's sexual practices, desires, and pleasures, including their views and experiences of pornography. Combined with this, we know almost nothing about women who choose not to use pornography, or who have a relationship to pornography through a partner or child's use. Some of this may be because of the quite notorious divisions in the women's movement when it comes to porn – with some women seeing it as a vehicle for women's empowerment, and others seeing it as abusive. There is little space to talk honestly, without fear of judgement or embarrassment. But we can change that.

So far, just over 500 women have had their say. Already what is clear is that women do not all think about porn in the same way, nor have they had the same - or even similar - experiences. Initial findings are clearly showing there is no singular 'women's view' on porn.

Around 70% of women who have responded have used online pornography by themselves. For the 30% who haven't, the most common reason is not liking the way it depicts women. Given this, it's interesting that it's about a 50/50 split between women who have searched for feminist porn or porn that is specifically directed at women, and those who haven't. However, it seems both camps agree that this kind of porn is hard to find.

Almost half of respondents have used pornography with a sexual partner. Some women said viewing porn was pleasurable and a useful tool for communicating sexually with their partner, while others said it was boring, or led to them and their partner feeling distracted and disengaged.

Women also have relationships to porn that aren't based on them deliberately seeking it out. Almost 90% of the women who responded have had a sexual partner who either definitely or probably used online porn. There was a fairly even split between respondents who felt fine about this, and conflicted by it.

People also stumble across porn when they're not expecting it. 85% of women have seen porn accidentally, most often through pop-up advertising, though almost 40% have seen porn on Facebook or Twitter. This is despite policies across both platforms that prohibit the advertising of 'pornographic content'.

The project is live until the end of the year so these findings are open to shift and develop. What is clear in reviewing the data so far is that there really is no single attitude, pathway, or experience of pornography for women. Instead of seeking to find out how women respond to pornography, then, it is more useful to think through what is the same and what is different amongst women's responses. And this is what the Women on Porn project seeks to do.

If you have anything you'd like to say about porn, it's easy to take part and you can do so without anyone knowing who you are.

The survey takes about 10 minutes to complete and is completely anonymous. You can also choose to enter a draw to win £20 in gift vouchers. Face-to-face interviews will be held across the UK in 2017, you will be paid for your time, and you can choose to participate here.

This is your chance to take part in the largest ever survey of UK women's views on mainstream online pornography. If you have anything to say about online porn, take part and make sure your voice is heard.

OP posts:
tametempo · 17/11/2016 20:35

Filled in.

51howdidthathappen · 17/11/2016 22:05

Done.
My views have changed over the years. It was interesting to be able to give a detailed response.

libprog · 17/11/2016 22:25

YonicProbe really? A few minutes of googling suggests she is just a prominent opponent of pornography, but is far from being acknowledged as the leading authority on this, with many critics.

sillage · 17/11/2016 23:04

"...she is just a prominent opponent of pornography, but is far from being acknowledged as the leading authority on this, with many critics."

In other words, Gail Dines has done some good work.

libprog · 17/11/2016 23:25

how did you draw that conclusion from that sentence???

0phelia · 17/11/2016 23:36

The girls I know who also do porn spend a lot of money on cocaine...
Also, anal incontinence throughout adulthood is not cool.
Losing your gag reflex from repeated deepthroat is not cool after it interferes with your ability to chew and swallow actual food.
Barebacking with a guy you barely know who could have any number of sti's could leave a woman infertile.
Breast implants always look terrible to me.

The porn industry promotes these things and it's mainly women on the receiving end of the downsides.

Anyway watching a woman pretend to enjoy sex isn't a turn on in the slightest either.

libprog · 18/11/2016 00:01

The big shots at my company spend a lot of money on cocaine...
What about gay men?
Does that apply to many? I know some counter examples but ofc that is anecdotal, but your point sounds so too.
Quite right, condoms should be used.
Yes, they do. But absolutely no requirement to make it big. The majority of the nominees for best actress at the AVN awards this year have no breast implants.

AdoraBell · 18/11/2016 00:22

I will take a look at the survey when I am less tired.

AnyFucker · 18/11/2016 08:49

You take quite the interest in porn and everything about it don't you, lib ?

Bitofacow · 18/11/2016 08:51

I think the OP is saying men and women " take quite the interest in porn".

libprog · 18/11/2016 11:21

And you take quite the interest in fucking?

sausageeggbacon111 · 18/11/2016 13:06

Having subjected myself to Gail Dines masters thesis and watched porn with DH I know which one is a lot more fun and it ain't Gail Dines. Given the number of niche porn sites out there would think there is something for most people.

AnyFucker · 18/11/2016 13:07

Naturally Wink

libprog · 18/11/2016 14:29

But as soon as people get paid for it, not any more?

0phelia · 18/11/2016 15:25

Paid for sex as a pattern sees men pushing boundaries on a woman's threshold to maximise a man's pleasure. (Excluding dominatrix stereotype) There's a routine formula in most porn, which is centred around male gratification and female subordinance.
You do not have to look for a very long time to find this pattern. Take a quick look only at the captions on "pornhub" or wherever to find slurs and insults against women and surprisingly none against men...

AnyFucker · 18/11/2016 16:31

Yup

AnyFucker · 18/11/2016 16:32

I do not believe that consent can be "bought"

Maybe you do. You might even be very invested in that concept.

libprog · 18/11/2016 19:12

But that begs the question does porn dictate what men watch or does demand dictate what porn produces?

And might I now?

sillage · 18/11/2016 22:33

"I know which one is a lot more fun and it ain't Gail Dines."

No one cares what you find "fun", we care about the quality of women's lives and relationships, and we care about reducing the serious (often deadly) harms that pornsick rape culture encourages in men.

You stick with your bimbo-brained phun, the rest of us are dealing with ourselves and the people we love being preyed on by men who pornography convinced are eternally willing "cumsluts begging for monster cocks in every hole."*

*this is ad copy for a bestselling porn video

Whisky2014 · 18/11/2016 22:51

Anyfucker..do you think the girls/women go along to their castings for these porn films unwillingly?

Whisky2014 · 18/11/2016 22:56

I wonder if the people against porn and going on about the quality of women's lives have actually watched porn?! There's also documentaries on pornstars and prostutes who are loaded and...happy! i know it's hard to believe for some of you, but some women really do like it. Anyfucker has mentioned on a few threads she wouldn't put up with her husband watching porn. Some people are just ignorant i guess.

gourab002 · 19/11/2016 08:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

0phelia · 19/11/2016 09:20

Whisky lol, I've been in porn. I work in the sex industry and am an active member of a suvivors of prostitution organisation where I provide advice and resources (including free condoms) from inside the industry. And am "happy and loaded" thanks.

So shall we examine first the notion that "some women like it" do you mean being in porn or watching porn? I have heared girl's conversations post job that will absolutely counter that notion. It's your job to fake it. If you happen to come (in prostitution) it's usually an unexpected perk not a regular occurrence. Most of the tine you need strong pain killers.

Libprog male pornographers make money by being more extreme than the last. There's a company in Brazil (run by men) that promises to produce ANY video if you pay them enough and will find girls to do it, and sell your video online (they made "Two girls one cup" are you familiar? Coprophilia and emetophilia all in one nice little package)
But these girls they find are poor, desperare and groomed by the promise of $$.

In porn, the more extreme, the more money they make and it's male demand in direct correlation to excessive availability that enables producers to maximize profits at the expense of female bodies. Why do men demand female violation?

Sure some of it is normal, some guy wanking to a stripper or girl vibrator job etc but there is a horrific dark side to it. It mostly reflects male desire to abuse women ime.

Bitofacow · 19/11/2016 10:10

I think as the OP states at the moment porn is something that happens to women. They are acted upon rather than actively engaging.

If this changed would more women have a more positive relationship with the porn that would be then produced?

libprog · 19/11/2016 12:04

0phelia - so what does that tell you about porn? Is it a national "health" crisis, or just a reflection of what men want? Does prohibiting it do any good? I specifically chose that word in reference to prohibition.