Guest post: "What we know about porn is based on men - that needs to change"

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

Last month, the largest ever survey of UK women's views and experiences of mainstream online pornography was launched, //www.womenonporn.org.

The project seeks to capture the range of women's views on mainstream online pornography - whether they use it regularly, occasionally, or not at all, have accidentally been exposed to it, or have partners who use it.

I came to this research through my experience delivering specialists Sex and Relationships Education (SRE) in secondary schools and a decade spent at a London based Rape Crisis Centre, designing and delivering sexual violence prevention work with young people.

The work was important and effective, but the ways in which some of the messages were being taken up by the young people were worrying. I became aware that the focus on sexual consent and the realities of sexual violence meant that we were inadvertently feeding into something positioning women as people whose sexual selves were acted on, rather than as sexual agents who could and did act through their bodies and out into the world.

We know very little about women's sexual practices, desires, and pleasures, including their views and experiences of pornography. Combined with this, we know almost nothing about women who choose not to use pornography, or who have a relationship to pornography through a partner or child's use. Some of this may be because of the quite notorious divisions in the women's movement when it comes to porn – with some women seeing it as a vehicle for women's empowerment, and others seeing it as abusive. There is little space to talk honestly, without fear of judgement or embarrassment. But we can change that.

So far, just over 500 women have had their say. Already what is clear is that women do not all think about porn in the same way, nor have they had the same - or even similar - experiences. Initial findings are clearly showing there is no singular 'women's view' on porn.

Around 70% of women who have responded have used online pornography by themselves. For the 30% who haven't, the most common reason is not liking the way it depicts women. Given this, it's interesting that it's about a 50/50 split between women who have searched for feminist porn or porn that is specifically directed at women, and those who haven't. However, it seems both camps agree that this kind of porn is hard to find.

Almost half of respondents have used pornography with a sexual partner. Some women said viewing porn was pleasurable and a useful tool for communicating sexually with their partner, while others said it was boring, or led to them and their partner feeling distracted and disengaged.

Women also have relationships to porn that aren't based on them deliberately seeking it out. Almost 90% of the women who responded have had a sexual partner who either definitely or probably used online porn. There was a fairly even split between respondents who felt fine about this, and conflicted by it.

People also stumble across porn when they're not expecting it. 85% of women have seen porn accidentally, most often through pop-up advertising, though almost 40% have seen porn on Facebook or Twitter. This is despite policies across both platforms that prohibit the advertising of 'pornographic content'.

The project is live until the end of the year so these findings are open to shift and develop. What is clear in reviewing the data so far is that there really is no single attitude, pathway, or experience of pornography for women. Instead of seeking to find out how women respond to pornography, then, it is more useful to think through what is the same and what is different amongst women's responses. And this is what the Women on Porn project seeks to do.

If you have anything you'd like to say about porn, it's easy to take part and you can do so without anyone knowing who you are.

The survey takes about 10 minutes to complete and is completely anonymous. You can also choose to enter a draw to win £20 in gift vouchers. Face-to-face interviews will be held across the UK in 2017, you will be paid for your time, and you can choose to participate here.

This is your chance to take part in the largest ever survey of UK women's views on mainstream online pornography. If you have anything to say about online porn, take part and make sure your voice is heard.

[sillage]

My agenda is going swimmingly, thanks. Two years ago Canada adopted the Nordic Model of prostitution that holds users* of prostitutes accountable for preying on vulnerable people and earlier in 2016 France followed suit. Several other countries are now considering the Nordic Model because it's working splendidly.

*this includes you masturbating yourself to images of prostituted women being raped on camera.

[libprog]

Point proven, good luck with your agenda.

[sillage]

Here's a summary of your previous posts:

"Have you tried politely asking men to stop consuming filmed rapes for the crotch tingles watching it brings them? No? Stupid, rude feminists are so ineffective."

[libprog]

sillage - read my previous posts.

[sillage]

www.feministcurrent.com/2014/06/12/i-want-140-characters-which-will-end-rape/

"So men, what do you want to hear?

Not all men are like that? You’re not like those other men?

Let’s say I tell you men that you are wonderful, kind, heroic and humble. Will these words of praise stop the girl enslavement called “child marriages?”

If women change tactics from demanding the return of girl children stolen in Africa, if instead we engulf men in a cascade of compliments assuring men that we know they are decent and devoted, will men return our generosity by raising the average age a girl enters prostitution out of the early teen years?"

[sillage]

Could you share with us your unique insights into the first steps necessary to reduce male violence?

I ask because you seem very caught up in how feminists are doing it all wrong and it doesn't seem you're capable of turning your attention to the wrongness of men raping and the wrongness of men murdering.

Patriarchy is your hypocrisy in thinking that telling women they're wrong is very useful for while simultaneously saying that to tell men they're wrong is very useless.

[libprog]

Surely this is about women's attitude towards porn, not men's. Women, like men, don't all share the same opinion.
It seems many women use and enjoy porn, this being the case dismissing porn use as a 'dysfunction' helps no one.

Literally all I am saying. If people asked me if it is a problem that young boys/men watch porn and re-enact that with partners being oblivious that that is not what the partners want, is a problem. I have even being called a SJW for arguing such and other points elsewhere.

But you are quite right, dismissing the entire thing as a dysfunction, generalizing men as having no social conscience if they watch porn, a) that is straight up wrong, b) it will alienate people and c) it shows a complete lack of ability to view things from a different perspective.

[Bitofacow]

Surely this is about women's attitude towards porn, not men's. Women, like men, don't all share the same opinion.
It seems many women use and enjoy porn, this being the case dismissing porn use as a 'dysfunction' helps no one.

[libprog]

Oh Fucker, if only you weren't so biased. Might actually be possible to hold a conversation with you. Then again, your sense of childish humor is mind-numbingly dull.

sillage, exactly my point, there is a strong belief on this forum to generalize men and a collective barrier to other viewpoints. Because yes, confronted with content as shown here, boys will indeed be boys. But much like the liberals so shocked at Brexit/Trump, you seem incapable of seeing your mistakes, too.

[sillage]

libprog, your longwinded "boys will be boys" mantra is lazy and dangerous.

[AnyFucker]

"You lot"

"Ad hominem"

Oh, you are teasing us...

Not

[libprog]

0phelia - yes completely self-righteous and unable to see past their own prejudices. "concerned about male acceptance/ignorance of abuse so long as they can ejaculate... Those feminists?" - how exactly do you think the majority of men will respond to this? With open ears to your concerns? Do you think you will achieve anything like that? Trump has won and Bannon is his chief strategist. Doesn't look like you are doing anything right.

[libprog]

M0stlyHet - talk about straw man and turn around to ad hominem. Well done.

[Bitofacow]

70% of the women who have responded to the survey so far "share this dysfunction".
I think the OP is trying to research this subject in a non judgmental way. The OP also acknowledges that feminists have very different views on this subject.
It will be interesting to see the findings.

[M0stlyHet]

Blimey, you really are a bit dense, aren't you, Lib? Clearly (given my reference to your deliberate attempt to pretend that the only way we could construe the word "use" was in the context of drug addiction) my response was to you, not AF. Anyway I've now realised that you wouldn't recognise the flaws in your arguments if they got up and did a dance routine and you are yet another poster who has registered on this site solely to tell us we're doing feminism wrong. Yawn. I shall ignoreffrom now on.

[0phelia]

What feminists are really like...
What, women being against abuse of other women and concerned about male acceptance/ignorance of abuse so long as they can ejaculate... Those feminists?
Look, don't convince yourself into a corner. Where are feminists going wrong in this equation exactly?

Anyway isn't this thread supposed to be about why aren't more women into porn? Well here's a clue. Most porn insults women. Not much of a turn-on for women.

[libprog]

I fail to see that logic. If I were so enthusiastic, I wouldn't feel the need to validate myself. Least of all from self-righteous women like yourself/ Because I simply wouldn't care, and wouldn't take you seriously, by your own argument.

But don't worry I have long realized that you lot aren't actually interested in debate, lest it conforms to your prejudices. It's a shame really, because what I said earlier was true, I came to the forum because I was defending feminism elsewhere and got told to come here and see for myself what feminists are like. Probably the easiest and most potent argument any man could bring against you. Rather ironic.

[AnyFucker]

I haven't changed my mind, lib. My guess is that you are certainly an enthusiastic consumer of porn. Your presence here is to validate that and to bring into question those who do not wholeheartedly embrace your dysfunction

[libprog]

"When you "use" a vibrator, are you reducing vibrators to a drug and those who watch it to addicts?"

Because you use a toy. Do you use movies or do you watch them?

"Let's put it another way, Lib. Do you think enthusiastic consumers of porn have a social conscience.

Have some fun with that one, mate."

Of course they do. Why do you think they do not? Because it doesn't fit into your own personal view of how the world should be?

"you then deliberately twist words to construct straw man interpretations which weren't actually intended in order to derail the discussion and avoid answering the question. "

I think you give way to much benefit of the doubt to AnyFucker. She has already accused me of most likely being a pimp or a regular John - all just from my postings online.

[AnyFucker]

Let's put it another way, Lib. Do you think enthusiastic consumers of porn have a social conscience.

Have some fun with that one, mate.

[M0stlyHet]

Good grief, talk about wilfully misunderstanding normal English usage in order to make a political point. I use a hoover to clean the house, I use a bus to get to work, I use a computer to do my job, when I get home I use a cooker to heat my tea... in fact it's "drug user" (conveting addiction) which is the non-standard usage (if you'll pardon the pun) of the word. Non-standard but still perfectly understood in context.

Under this pedantry there's a serious point however - if you're going to go all Humpty Dumpty on us (words mean exactly what I want them to mean) it then becomes impossible to have a rational discussion because you then deliberately twist words to construct straw man interpretations which weren't actually intended in order to derail the discussion and avoid answering the question.

So let's reword the question - what proportion of people who watch porn (having chosen to do so rather than had a pop up open accidentally on their phone) have a social conscience.

[sillage]

When you "use" a vibrator, are you reducing vibrators to a drug and those who watch it to addicts?

I've seen knee-jerk defenses of porn before but you've started a whole new category here.

[libprog]

"use" porn? Are you degrading porn to a drug and those who watch it to addicts?

[AnyFucker]

Lib....do you think that individuals who use porn have a social conscience ?

[sillage]

I think reducing the amount of sexually stimulating anti-woman propaganda that is pornography will go a ways towards making boys grow into better men.

Let's not pretend media has no influence on what people believe.