Guest post: "Secondary infertility brought us heartache and loss - egg donation is bringing us hope"

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'But it's OK though, isn't it? Because you already have one.'

This has to be one of the most soul-destroying sentences I have heard since Ross and I started trying for a baby. My second child and his first. My body worked first time, so why not again?

The guilt I feel over having a baby with the wrong man, but not being able to have one with the right man, is immense. Yes, I have my nine-year-old daughter, but while my body tells me it is done with having babies, my heart and soul are crying out for more.

I had Grace when I was almost 37. It was having her that made me see that the relationship I was in was abusive, so I left when she was three months old. By the time I was almost 40, I had accepted that I might never have another child. Then Ross came along and everything changed.

We have been together for almost five years and for over two-and-a-half of those we have been trying for a baby. I first fell pregnant after just three months - but I miscarried after six weeks. I got pregnant again over a year later, but this time it was a self-aborting ectopic pregnancy. The amount of pressure that each month now puts on our sex life has become a big strain on our relationship. We keep saying that we can't wait until we get 'back to normal'.

We have been trying to establish what is wrong but, because this is secondary infertility, we are struggling to be taken seriously. I have had a great deal of difficulty with GPs and hospitals. We are not allowed IVF on the NHS because I already have Grace and because I am over 40. It doesn't seem to matter that Ross is seven years younger than me and has no biological child of his own.

Despite the hurdles, we didn't give up. Our GP finally agreed to send Ross for a semenology test - which came back normal. I went to see a specialist, and after a number of questions, without any physical tests, I was advised that I had unexplained infertility - and that the endometriosis and balanced translocation of my chromosomes were a contributing factor.

A balanced translocaton is where a part of one of your chromosomes has swapped places with part of another, which means they compensate each other and cancel out any abnormalities. If you get pregnant, then your baby could contract just one of your abnormal chromosomes resulting in disability or miscarriage.

At my request, I was then sent for an Anti-Mullerian hormone blood test thought to reflect the size of a woman's remaining egg supply - or 'ovarian reserve'. A healthy woman has a count of 15 to 30. Mine was less than five - giving us a 20% chance of IVF being successful.

Faced with this knowledge, we investigated the possibility of an egg donor last summer. We found out that it was a legal requirement in the UK that the donor was declared - but in many other countries, they have to remain anonymous.

We learnt that a woman of a younger child-bearing age, who has gone through a multitude of tests and screening processes, is matched to you, your characteristics and your interests. They then match up your menstrual cycle, either naturally or via the contraceptive pill. Most clinics then guarantee you a minimum of 10 eggs ready for fertilisation. We attended the Fertility Show and kept on researching, and then found a clinic in Cyprus we really liked.

I had been struggling with the fact that the baby would not be genetically mine. However, the research I have read on epigenetics has given me so much comfort. Even though a donor egg baby receives genes from the donor, the instructions on how they are expressed is from the woman who carries the baby to term.

We have now completed our paperwork and have chosen a donor. The next stage is to start medication at the beginning of my next cycle – which involves at least one injection a day for 12 weeks. Ross and I will then travel to Cyprus and stay there for eight days. Ross will provide a sample to use for fertilisation, and after five days two embryos will then be transplanted into me. I've been keeping a vlog diary on my YouTube channel of our journey so far, and sharing this on my blog every weekend.

Even though we are having to go through so much and pay in so many ways for this baby - including costs in the region of £7,000 - it all somehow feels right now. I started this process feeling worried about being a failure, and scared of the medical procedure. Now, I'm full of feelings of excitement and anticipation. When I woke up on New Year's Day, I said to Ross 'This is the year we are going to meet our baby'. I am still worried about all the medication and scared of what is to come, including the heartache of it not working, but the want for our newborn far outweighs this.

You're wrong. It gives a flat fee of £750.

'Egg donor payment - As an egg donor you can receive compensation of up to £750 per cycle of donation, to reasonably cover any financial losses incurred in connection with the donation, with the provision to claim an excess to cover higher expenses (such as for travel, accommodation or childcare).

If you are an egg donor who is not a permanent resident of the UK you may be compensated in the same way as a UK donor but you will not be able to claim an excess to cover overseas travel expenses.'

www.hfea.gov.uk/egg-donation-and-egg-sharing.html

I wonder if people horrified at children "losing their genetic heritage" through anonymous egg/sperm donation have similar reactions to:

• children conceived through one-night stands or on holiday flings where the father is untraceable?

• adoptions where one or both birth parents are unknown, either because the father is unregistered on a birth cert or an international adoption process allows anonymity?

It's not as though egg/sperm donation opens up a whole new ethical dilemma - there have been comparable situations of unknown "genetic heritage" for as long as we've had sexual reproduction...

The only thing that's new are a lot of holier-than-thou attitudes about assisted reproduction that don't bear up to any kind of logical scrutiny.

unique you are conflating lots of different issues, I personally don't have an issue with egg, tissue, organ and blood donation. I think it's great that technology has progressed to such an extent where these things can take place.

I DO have an issue with commodification, exploitation and coercion being used to facilitate this.

unique dds father was neither a fling nor an actual sperm donor. But being an excuse for human life, his involvement is the same level you describe for those scenarios. He's still her biological father.

Fwiw I am supportive of both egg and sperm donation. I just strongly believe it should be just that, a willing and informed donation. Not an economically dictated transaction.

Perhaps you don't, X, but plenty of people do, and be discussion inevitably becomes muddied with these facts.

In the first world, we take advantage of the third world all of the time. Anyone who has ever shopped in primark, bought a nestle product or bought non-fair trade coffee has done so.

Where this differs is because it involves human fluids, I suppose, which arguably throws in a different ethical dilemma. In the case of egg and sperm donation, I'm not sure it does.

Would a woman really be thrilled to be told - no, you cannot be paid for donating your eggs, even though you have no use of them and they will bring potential untold happiness to someone else? You must do it voluntarily, and for money you must go and work 12 hour days for next to nothing?

If what you are arguing for is a fairer world I'm right behind you, but the place to start is not here!

I have great sympathy for people with secondary infertility, have been there myself, and sympathise with the guest poster on that.

There are reasons why we no longer have anonymous donation of eggs and sperm in the UK, eg evidence research and consultation on the views and feelings of DC that suggests this can be a problem for them. There are also good reasons why payments to donors are limited.

IMO it's not ethically OK for couples to circumvent UK rules by going abroad.

Actually, the change in U.K. law is because of the possibility of genetic medical conditions rather than concern about the finer feelings of the child.

I can look back at various jobs and situations in my life and accept I was exploited because I was in a vulnerable position. Meaning my self respect, quality of life and happiness were 'sold'. I can't imagine having to accept as a result of that I had a biological child being raised by someone else. Thats entirely different to if I currently said 'I choose to donate eggs'.

If you really saw it like that - as 'your' child being raised by someone else - you wouldn't donate your eggs. It's also a rather crude thing to say.

Giving eggs or sperm is not about being s parent yourself; it's about someone else becoming a parent.

Most people accept that they have an excess of what they actually need for their own family. Some decide to donate. Money may or may not be a factor in this: men in Sweden who donate sperm are generally university students looking to make money. Do yo also see this as wrong?

willow you are right we live in a deeply unequal world were exploitation is rife, this knowledge informs how I shop, vote, what I boycott etc

I am thrilled to know that I can't be paid for my eggs, blood and kidneys because its exploitative.

I find comparing shopping in Primark and exploitating a woman for her genetic material pretty loathsome.

willow exactly. Giving is a free choice. Doing so for financial gain isn't the same. And yes I feel the same about sperm, tissue/ organ donation, surrogacy, adoption etc. I'm absolutely in favour of anyone who is fully aware of all the implications donating them for anothers benefit. Adding personal gain above the level of knowing you've helped someone means you aren't primarily donating just for anothers benefit, and that gain may well stop you delving too deep into all the implications for yourself. Especially in the case of the common age range for paid donation.

The ethics committee of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine has a long and considered report on the ethics of egg/sperm donation.

The US is obviously different to the UK, but I think the basic points hold. If egg/sperm donation should be considered a one-off gift, then donor anonymity makes sense (although updated medical information about genetic and health conditions should ideally flow both ways). But if egg/sperm donation should be considered a lifelong responsibility and commitment, then donor identification makes sense. It's possible to trade off these two alternatives with a hybrid model that shares a large amount of the donor's personal information but stops short of name and address.

In the US, the anonymity policy varies by clinic so the ASRM policy does not take sides exactly, but rather lays out the issues that should be considered. The most important thing is fully informed consent on the part of both donor and recipient.

For a more nuanced perspective on the issue of anonymity than has been evident on this thread so far, it's a good read.

PDF link is dead - it's the first report here.

Thanks geeka.

The link is broken also the Asrm findings are wildly different to HFEA and the position taken the DCnetwork.

Xxed As I said, as you would have seem if you had read my post , the ASRM doesn't take a position. They just lay out the ethical issues. That's what I meant by a nuanced discussion.

But if you only want to read things that validate your own set opinion, then perhaps you should avoid it. Hth.

And someone else posted a fixed link, btw.

I am not sure where you got the idea that I only read to validate my own opinion.

If we are going to have a nuanced debate then we should also examine the vested interests of different stakeholders. Including the ASRM.

thex I ever went to a poor country either, You have been very judgemental. You are putting down a lot of women. The women who do this have a choice and they are helping so many women who would other wise not beable to have their much love babies. Marie