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Guest post: "I fear the eradication of Down's syndrome"

999 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 16/11/2015 17:29

On the day Natty was born, I wasn't sure I was up to being her mother. Ignorance took over. Everything I thought I knew about Down's syndrome was a smattering of outdated stereotypes, all of which have subsequently been proved wrong.

In eight years, we have come so far as a family, risen to challenges, endured heart surgery, made adjustments and learnt to slow our pace and live in the moment. I wouldn't change any of it. I am a better person now. The pregnant woman I was, whose heart was filled with fear at the words Down's syndrome, now shakes her head in disbelief.

I've been bleary-eyed over research for this post. And, in fact, as I rose at 5.30am, drafts of what I would write very much in my mind, there was one member of our busy household who noticed my pensiveness. Natty drew me down to her face level, looked intuitively at me and said 'It's OK Mummy.'

I held her so tight, and made a silent promise into her warm hair, a promise that I would do my best to convey her worth to the world.

Because while we praise advances in healthcare and women's control over their reproductive lives, there is an important ethical debate I fear is being overlooked.

A new non-invasive prenatal test (NIPT) could help identify women whose babies have Down's syndrome. The test involves taking a sample of blood from the mother and it uses this to detect the baby's DNA.

At the moment, the NIPT test is available privately, but it could soon be rolled out by the NHS as part of their population screening programme. The UK National Screening Committee has just ended consultation over offering it - it can only be added to the programme if there is a beneficial reason for doing so.

However, there is no health gain in diagnosing Down's syndrome during pregnancy. It cannot be treated or prevented. It simply allows parents to decide whether to continue a pregnancy to term or not.

There are ethical implications to genetic testing, but no easy answers. The UNESCO International Bioethics Committee says that genetic testing can offer women the right of choice. However, it could also become routine that ill or disabled children are not to given the choice of birth at all.

So giving women choice whilst not devaluing individuals with Down's syndrome is a fine line to tread.

We must ensure that parents are given unbiased, updated information in order to make informed choices. There can be no assumption that those with Down's syndrome are not compatible with life - or worse, that they are too costly to have a right to life.

We are promised that the new NIPT can allow parents to be prepared for their baby's arrival and that it will not increase termination rates. However, in countries where Down's syndrome screening has been standard for years, termination rates stand at almost 100%. Are these tests being sold as a kind form of early euthanasia to trusting expectant parents - and will a whole genetic group of people be targeted in the process?

The support networks we have in place simply aren't as sophisticated as the genetic tests being considered. We must explain test implications and outcomes, support those who choose a termination and give equal care to those who choose to continue their pregnancies. We need charities that aren't partnered with the test manufacturers.

If parents are rushed into terminations, or asked repeatedly if they would like to end their pregnancies, then we are certainly sending out the message that some lives are worth a great deal less than others.

We need the screening committee to welcome input from parental groups and self-advocates. We need to match up the wonderful examples of best practice by bringing committed midwives and learning disability nurses together, and we need to accept the value of difference.

Society has come a long way from the days when children with Down's syndrome were institutionalised with little or no love, educational support or quality healthcare. We hope Natty will find employment she enjoys, have a partner of her choosing, a social life fuller than ours and live a long, healthy life independently with support.

I cannot bear to think that one day I will have to explain to Natty why others think her adored life is not worth living, or even justify her very existence. But here I am, already doing just that.

And, most of all, I fear that one day I will be grieving, as others celebrate the eradication of all children like my beautiful daughter. No Natty, maybe it's not OK.

The BBC is making a documentary about Down's syndrome, which Hayley Gowleniowska is contributing to. If you are affected by the tests and interested in an initial off-the-record research chat, please contact Clare at [email protected].

OP posts:
Toffeelatteplease · 18/11/2015 09:29

I cannot bear to think that one day I will have to explain to Natty why others think her adored life is not worth living, or even justify her very existence. But here I am, already doing just that.

Unfortunately this paragraph made it the unpalatable subtext of the original article. Choose to abort and you are commenting on Natty's, and others like her right to life.

It isn't. It's a deeply personal and difficult decision. Yes it might possibly have an impact on society as a whole in the long run but this is a discussion I think that can and should be had without denegrating the difficult decisions of others

CoteDAzur · 18/11/2015 09:32

"I have read that individuals with t21 are born to women at the end of their reproductive life as a sort of built in home help with grandchildren and care for the parents"

And I have read that babies with DS (trisomy 21) are born to women at the end of their reproductive life because by then the genetic material in the ova they are carrying is degraded and is prone to errors in reproduction.

I read this in reputable medical sources. Where did you read yours?

SurferJet · 18/11/2015 09:33

I had CVS with my pregnancy as I didn't want a baby with Down's syndrome - I had CVS at 13 weeks ( earlier than amino ) so if a problem had been picked up I'd have terminated at around 14 weeks.
I wouldn't have thought twice about terminating the pregnancy as I find parenting hard work at the best of times.
I have nothing but admiration for parents of disabled children, but I just know it would have been too much for me.

IceBeing · 18/11/2015 09:33

I think employability will be less of an issue in the future - when all the meaningful work will be done by robots....our ability to enjoy life will become our primary genetic driver. I am not sure where DS would sit on that though...I know the stereotypes aren't the reality.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/11/2015 09:38

I have nothing but admiration for parents of disabled children, but I just know it would have been too much for me.

Yes we are superhuman beings.

Or..we love our kids and just get on with it

SurferJet · 18/11/2015 09:43

Fanjo - If my child had been born with a disability I'd have loved him with all my heart & I'd move heaven & earth to make his life as happy & comfortable as possible. But I was given a choice & I took it.

IceBeing · 18/11/2015 09:44

Nobody can be certain in advance that they could cope....nobody can be certain that they couldn't.

Not wanting to is totally predictable though. I think as I wrote earlier that if you are highly fertile, will fall pregnant easily again and don't want to have to cope with a child that you already know will be born disabled, then termination is a sensible choice.

You are taking a risk because you can't know you will get pregnant again, and of course you don't have all the information because the disability might not have been severe and the child you do bring to term might also be or become disabled (we all become disabled in the end), but we have to make decisions on incomplete information all the time. Telling ourselves 'we had no choice' is a coping mechanism for dealing with all the uncertainty...but an obviously bollocks one.

Toffeelatteplease · 18/11/2015 09:45

we love our kids and just get on with it

I have nothing but admiration for parents of disabled children, but I just know it would have been too much for me.

Those are not incompatible statements both are equally true. It's just some are given a choice and some aren't. The choice of you have it has got to be personal because the two statements are equally true

LegoRuinedMyFinances · 18/11/2015 09:47

I posted on this thread yesterday. As I stated I have a medically ill child rather than a child with DS. My child is considered disabled due to the medical condition, however is NT.

I don't consider parenting in this way a joy. It's bloody hard work. We do get to do nice things but these nice things are marred by my child's illness.

I think its commendable that parents on here with children who have DS, are saying that their children's lives are wonderful and that they don't find parenting difficult with a disabled child. That's amazing and lovely.

However, there are parents of children with conditions that do struggle - myself included. When life is one long ongoing hospital stay it changes your opinion.

My child's condition is one that can, and will be tested for. I hope they can faze it out through genetics. I would wish that no child were born with it. I won't apologise for that viewpoint, as I am weary from the awfulness that this condition has caused my child, and my family. I have lost friends to this condition and I can't wait for that to stop.

I wouldn't want any family to have to go through that.

Stating this fact doesn't make me intolerable to those with disabilities. Nor does it mean my child isn't loved, or wanted. But surely any parent would want their child to live a healthy and pain free life?

LegoRuinedMyFinances · 18/11/2015 09:47

*through genetic testing

Branleuse · 18/11/2015 09:48

I would almost certainly terminate for downs syndrome. That doesnt mean I think people with downs are worth less, but that if I could decide not to have a child with a severe disability, then thats what I would probably choose. There just isnt the support out there. Even respite care has been very recently cut right back to nothing. My friends who use these services are devastated and frightened.

All my children have ASD, and I think a lot of people would terminate for that too, and tbh, which ofc is difficult on a personal level because they are amazing children, but really, I think a lot of people have a bit of a romantic view of what having a disabled child is like, with no basis in reality.
Id also terminate a completely healthy foetus if I didnt think I could cope at that time, but that doesnt mean I dont care about human beings as a whole.

crumblybiscuits · 18/11/2015 09:48

we love our kids and just get on with it

I loved my DD2. I chose to take the pain of ending a very wanted pregnancy instead of her living a very short life in pain. I held her, buried her and grieved her. If she had been born with her problems undetected, yes I would have got on with it the same as anyone else.

Havalina1 · 18/11/2015 10:09

As the OP Hayley is talking about DS specifically, would it be true to say that it is one of the less disabling/life affecting conditions to have? And so to screen out on the basis of DS, (and not other illnesses) makes the world a place without the nuances and characteristics that people with Down's have?

I have read the original post as an argument for attention and caution: that the world is turning to a very generic version of what people should be like. I agree with her post and I have often though the same, but wouldn't be able to articulate it as she has done. However in a way I think it's all academic - the families are the ones who get to choose. Are we responsible for how 'the world' develops, or are we responsible to our immediate family unit? Of course, it's the latter, and that is what drives the decisions to terminate I suspect. I was really shocked to read that 96% of DS positive diagnoses are terminated.

I'm Irish and as a previous poster said, DS is not an unusual thing here, most people will know a family with a member with DS. The Special Olympics being hosted here created a HUGE and I mean HUGE awareness - if people were not in contact with someone with a disability before it, the end of they were and it bred something really positive in people, it opened their minds. It also led to a culture of 'minding' in a more collective way and that can only be a good thing.

I get riddled with guilt, I hate to admit this but I do, when I see a family with a member with DS - a flash of what they have gone through goes through my mind, the diagnosis, the stress, the journey, I wonder on their journey and I feel sorry for them and then I feel really awful that i'm looking at them and thinking that way about strangers who are probably very proud of their family. It is hard to articulate and I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of it.

My newborn was born with a condition not picked up in pregnancy. It is though something manageable and he won't (hopefully) suffer as a result as there is a treatment for it. But untreated my son would have severe disabilities both mental and physical. When I found out about it my range of emotions shocked me from 'I am the woman to handle this' (trying desperately to convince myself) to 'what have I brought into the family' (feeling massive guilt towards my daughter and how it would shadow over her life). But I suspect like all things those emotions move on and newer ones replace them.

Nobody knows how they will handle anything life throws at them - until the day comes it is thrown at them.

I respect everyone's opinions on here and think it's so good to hear so many views on this.

OrangeNoodle · 18/11/2015 10:09

My son's life may be short. At times it is painful. We have no idea what the future holds since no doctor has yet been able to tell us. And yet, knowing what I know now, had my little boy shown any abnormalities while in the womb, termination would not have even crossed my mind.

If I were to become pregnant again now, I have a 1 in 4 chance of conceiving another child with the same difficulties, or different ones. I would still choose to continue the pregnancy.

I would make these choices because I now have real, personal experience of severe disability.

Without that experience, the choice to terminate would be made in the abstract, and with only statistics, reports and misplaced fear on which to make a decision. I know these would have scared me into terminating.

Informed choice isn't informed choice if there isn't real experience of disability alongside the reports, statistics and hearsay.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/11/2015 10:12

Crumbly I feel for what you went through but with respect you are taking what I said out of context. I did not imply I love my DD more than you love yours. I was answering someone's point about how they couldn't do what I do.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/11/2015 10:14

. There just isnt the support out there. Even respite care has been very recently cut right back to nothing. My friends who use these services are devastated and frightened.

It's an appalling indictment of society if people who wouldn't terminate are feeling they have to because of lack of respite and support. And that seems to be a big reason on this thread.

crumblybiscuits · 18/11/2015 10:15

Fango I was more trying to say that I chose what I did out of love the same way you do what you do out of love.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/11/2015 10:17

No one doubts that crumbly.

I don't do it out of love although I love her. It's just being a parent I guess.

Havalina1 · 18/11/2015 10:17

orangeNoodle i agree

Branleuse · 18/11/2015 10:21

Fanjo, yes its pretty shit, but its fact, and lots of people voted this government in knowing full well they would shit on the most vulnerable members of society and they have, and are doing.

Alyselisabeth · 18/11/2015 10:21

Crumblybiscuits, Thankyou!!

This is what I have been trying to say all through this thread! Just because we chose to end a pregnancy to spare the pain of our child and our family to a certain extent doesn't mean we didn't love our baby.....in my opinion not just a foetus! A baby with 10 tiny toes and 10 tiny fingers who I will love forever.

I realise my son was not diagnosed with DS and it was a condition incompatible with life but at 1 point it was suggested that DS was the cause of my sons Increased NT level so I spent my time researching all I could and chatting with families and I still would have chosen the same outcome. Yes it would have been a hell of a lot earlier than 21 weeks and maybe I wouldn't have thought of him as a baby but at 21 weeks he was very much a baby, I gave birth to him, i held him, I kissed him and I told him I loved him, no one can say he was just a foetus.

I also work in a funeral directors and this was also a factor in my decision. I've seen too many babies and children pass through those doors and the grieving families that go with that and it never ever gets easier. I'd do all I can to stop that happening.

DixieNormas · 18/11/2015 10:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LegoRuinedMyFinances · 18/11/2015 10:22

Orange I respect you for your opinion and you sound lovely.

Unfortunately, your viewpoint is not one I can get on board with, but I respect that this is how you feel.

I wouldn't knowingly bring a life into the world knowing it would be short and painful. Maybe I'm an awful person (likely), or maybe I've been too worn down by the disability my child has faced. But I don't think we have to have children born with disabilities, to make sure that we have an understanding of disability. Even if genetic testing reduced the number of children born with disabilities, there are still people who become disabled, or who have conditions which cannot be screened for.

Either way, I'll probably bow out now. I am in another long drudge of hospital treatment and it will be clouding my view, as I know I become very pessimistic during these times. Best of luck to you and your little one.

crumblybiscuits · 18/11/2015 10:27

Lego put my feelings in a better way than I could but as an additional factor in my life I couldn't have knowingly turned my first DD's life upside down the way a disabled, dying sibling would have. Obviously if the DD3 I am pregnant with now was born with a disability she would have to essentially lump it, but I couldn't actively choose that for her with prior knowledge.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 18/11/2015 10:29

To be fair a fatal condition is quite different to DS...usually.

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