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Guest post: The 'poshness test': "we can't just blame employers - the divide starts much earlier"

65 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 19/06/2015 10:07

If you were in charge of recruitment at a law or accountancy firm, who would be your job candidate of choice? A slightly diffident applicant with a regional accent, a clutch of dodgy A-levels from an inner-city comprehensive, and a first-class degree obtained as a mature student at a former polytechnic? Or an urbane ex-public school boy with an air of easy assurance and a solid 2:1 from a Russell Group university?

New research by the Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission reveals that working-class applicants struggle to gain access to the best jobs. In some solicitors' firms, trainees are five times more likely than the population as a whole to have attended a fee-paying school. The Commission concludes that firms are applying a 'poshness test', excluding bright young people simply because they come from the wrong side of the tracks.

At this point, I'll come clean: I'm one of the privately educated elite to whom the report refers. At my fee-paying girls' school in Manchester, we had elocution lessons – misleadingly timetabled as 'speech and drama' – the sole purpose of which was to eliminate our flat northern vowels. But there are degrees of poshness, and I was always aware that my parents – a teacher and a receptionist – didn't move in quite the right circles.

These days, parents like mine can't afford to pay for their children's education. Research published by the Institute of Fiscal Studies in 2010 revealed that school fees had risen at nearly three times the rate of household income since 1992. Average day-school fees now stand at more than £12,000 a year, well out of the reach of the average teacher, let alone a cleaner or call-centre worker. Private education, it seems, is increasingly the preserve of the very rich.

When I started university, I mixed with students from schools that were even posher than mine. You could spot the public-school brigade easily - they were immediately on first-name terms with professors, chatting unselfconsciously at sherry receptions about gap years in Nepal and summer placements in their fathers' firms. At the age of nineteen or twenty they were already plotting out their career paths, joining clubs and committees and effortlessly forming the connections that would guarantee success in their professional lives.

After graduation I joined a national law firm, where for every clever solicitor from a state school, there were ten affable but academically less stellar public-school types. Pitted against these people at interview, the working-class candidate doesn't stand a chance. From the moment he walks into the room, he sends out a thousand tiny signals that reveal his background.

The truth is that it feels safer and less threatening for privately educated interviewers to recruit in their own image. That's why so many law firms are full of clubbable chaps and chapesses who obtain partnership primarily on the basis of their ability to schmooze clients. A group of them once poured scorn on my suggestion that our firm should seek out and offer assistance to socially disadvantaged job candidates - they were against positive discrimination, but they failed to recognise that they had benefited from a far more subtle and insidious form of it over the years.

Still, it seems unfair just to blame employers - in truth, the divide opens up decades before that first job interview. Middle-class parents confer all sorts of benefits on their children, simply by virtue of their money and social capital. Children from lower socio-economic backgrounds tend to have poorer language skills when they start school, whereas middle-class children, who grow up listening to dinner party conversations and Radio 4, seem to absorb their parents' high expectations.

To compensate for social disadvantage, it's clear that intervention is needed at an early stage. How unfortunate that the Sure Start programme, with its emphasis on quality childcare and early education, has been undermined by funding cuts, with many centres forced to close down. Another progressive initiative is the pupil premium – school funding targeted at children from disadvantaged backgrounds – but its future is uncertain under a government that has already announced a real-terms cut in the education budget.

There are other, more radical solutions. I don't suggest that it would be practicable to dismantle the private education system but I do think reform is possible, given the political will. Changes that could go some way towards redressing the balance include removing private schools' charitable tax status; obliging them to offer a certain number of well-publicised bursaries; or imposing a quota system so that the proportion of privately educated students at the Russell Group universities bears a closer relationship to the seven per cent of pupils in the general population who attend fee-paying schools.

Another means of redress is discrimination law. The Equality Act already rules out recruitment decisions based on a candidate's sex, race or disability; why not make it unlawful for employers to discriminate on grounds of socio-economic disadvantage? While none of these suggestions is uncontroversial, I believe they deserve to be explored.

Meanwhile, those of us who have benefited from a private schooling, and who now act as gatekeepers to the best jobs, need to ask ourselves some difficult questions. Has our privileged education opened doors that would have remained firmly closed if we'd attended the local comprehensive? Do our recruitment decisions reveal an unconscious bias towards those who look, sound and act like us? And are the qualities we value in a job applicant – such as eloquence, confidence and polish – simply a convenient shorthand for posh?

OP posts:
silveracorn · 20/06/2015 18:02

MoreBeta - that's an interesting list. Very long. Not comprehensive though (excuse pun.) I'd love to know where people like Gary Younge or Steve Bell went to school.

What Jux describes is alive and well. We looked round one local independent school for the DC, known locally for taking the boys who didn't get into the more academic schools and the Head told us that if our DC turned out not to be too bright, not to worry as the school had excellent City contacts so if university wouldn't suit them, they could walk straight into a job at one of these firms. And that school does turn out thoroughly naice chaps of the type the City wants, regardless of intellectual capability.

eurochick · 20/06/2015 18:15

I am a state school educated woman who is now a partner in a City law firm.

I've done a lot of graduate recruitment in the past and there has been a conscious effort to encourage diversity of all kinds and interviewers were trained to avoid "people like me" bias.

IMHO the best things for social mobility would be to bring back widespread grammar schools and get rid of church schools. I think religion has no place in state education but that aside, it is middle class parents who can work the system to get into these schools, which are often the best state schools in an area.

ancientbuchanan · 21/06/2015 00:02

A friend is a partner in a well known law firm. They are very clear that they give internships on merit and pay enough to enable most people to take internships up. They look for ability as you do not want a thick lawyer, judgment, and personality. They don't care about social background but you must, as above, be enthusiastic and hard working and able to represent and sell the firm. Being articulate is important.

I'm involved in a school which recruits from a fairly poor area. Not the most deprived, but quite. And we want to give all our kids that ability to present themselves well, conduct themselves with assurance and know that they can cope, act even if they feel shit underneath, a bit of that gloss if you want to put it like that. Most of the kids are highly articulate on subjects they know about. We are now trying to take them a little more out of their comfort zones, foster debate, expose them to all sorts of people and ideas which they may not in all cases get at a home.

And we want to foster that aspiration. Ok, you want to be a hairdresser. What sort if hair ? Have you thought of adding wigs, going into the theatre for a bit? Because you are really good at biology as well as art, have you thought of doing an a level which might mean you could learn more about the technical side ? And maybe add business studies so you could run your own business?

Or ok, you are really good at maths ? Where are you going to go to university? Have you thought about...?

The difficulty is having the resource and time to provide that as home often does not, and by resource I don't mean just money. But we don't have great contacts. And we are heads down on the daily grind. You need an excellent governing body, excellent PTA, and people with enough energy to start rolling the snowball. The teachers are committed and not limited in their aspirations, it's the weight of the daily grind.

If you can do it in primary, that is brilliant. Tim Brighouse used to say that from year 1 up you should ask children what they were going yo study at university, because you planted a seed in their minds and no one else might ask . He had a point.

saintlyjimjams · 21/06/2015 08:49

I like your approach ancient - encouraging ambition & achievement & seeing value in all choices - not just the university-profession route.

I am interested in how many posts are defining 'success' in very narrow terms - i.e achieving in the City. I have friends who work in all sorts of areas (& am Oxbridge educated myself, so a few are now running the country). Some that I would regard as the most successful, with the most interesting careers went nowhere near Oxbridge or a Russell Group university or a profession.

Our aim should surely be the sort of thing ancient talks about - teaching the value of dribe & ambition in all areas, not trying to cream off the 'brightest' (i.e. those best at exams) in order to shove them towards traditionally defined 'successful' professions. Outside the City you can earn more with a trade (if you run your own business) than you can as a lawyer. Wink

elderflowerlemonade · 21/06/2015 17:33

I am a little bit lost with this.

Why wouldn't a firm select somebody better qualified?

purits · 21/06/2015 23:09

New research ... reveals that working-class applicants struggle to gain access to the best jobs.

That depends on how you define 'best jobs'. I'm an accountant. Money doesn't drop from heaven into my lap. I have to earn it by giving a service to businesses like plumbers, manufacturers, cake-makers, traders, roofers; lots of self-made people with a bit more get up and go than the average. Many of them earn more than me so who has the "best" job?
Some of them, by the way, offer jobs to the DC of mates - this goes on in all the strata of society, not just the posh end.

CalmYoBadSelf · 22/06/2015 00:19

My DCs went to independent schools and I think the biggest difference between their education and mine at state school was the confidence they gained. Maybe part of that is down to personality and there is obviously a lot of years between us but they will both deal with challenges with charm and positivity that often wins others over in a way I never could

I'm against the idea of removing charitable status for these schools. The way to improve state education is to bring the best from these schools into them not to drag the others down. Removing grammar schools was supposed to increase social mobility yet it is at the lowest levels for a long time

bettysviolin · 22/06/2015 09:03

saintly true, people can thrive and have drive in all sorts of professions, but I think it's important to recognise that access for bright people from working class backgrounds to really high end earning (e.g. lawyers earning £600ph) is limited. I'm not arguing that this is a better or more desirable way of life but that it should be an option that people with the right sort of intelligence are aware of and prepared for, should they choose that route. State schools don't really foster that level of confidence and sheen.

TheWordFactory · 22/06/2015 09:15

saintly I think it's far too convenient to assume that no one but those from the most advantaged backgrounds want to work in industries such as law/medicine/politics/business/finance/media.

And the fact that the local plumber makes more than the local tin pot solictor shouldn't be trotted out as cast iron evidence that the status quo is just fine.

There are certain industries that have a macro impact on society and they don't currently reflect society at all.

longestlurkerever · 22/06/2015 10:25

I do think there are two issues here being rolled into one. 1) Do state schools do an adequate job to prepare pupils for the "top" jobs and if not, what more should they do? Or is it a case of employer discrimination that means private schools are over represented in city firms etc?. 2) How can we as a society address the divide between the career/education/earning potential between working class children and their middle class counterparts? I agree with pp that to say state school=working class is rather a bizarre conclusion.

As I said, I am state educated but I also had very well educated parents with high educational aspirations for me and I went to Oxford. I don't really view myself as as rags to riches success story, still less my dds who have a very comfortably middle class life despite their state education.

I also agree that to say working class or state educated children would not want a city job is wrong. I said something similar but I hope different, which is that there are many ways to define success and from my observations from the outside, I wonder if sometimes private/grammar schools have a very narrow view of it. I too admire ancient's school's approach.

saintlyjimjams · 22/06/2015 15:51

I haven't said that state educated children wouldn't want a City job. I'm just saying that the definition of 'success' needs to be widened from defining it via pay packets and tax codes & according to very narrow criteria (wasn't that a Nicky Morgan bonkers idea - I'm honestly embarrassed I went to the same college as her) or you'll get 90% of people switching off.

If schools were able to encourage people to make the best use of their talents (whatever those are), then City wannabes will be encouraged along with future hair stylists. Unfortunately success definitions are still very narrow.

clmustard · 23/06/2015 08:06

Although well written this article is missing a point.

A large proportion of working class people cannot afford work for little or nothing for 2 years.

Few people can fund life as a trainee or intern and cannot get a foot on the ladder as a result.

longestlurkerever · 23/06/2015 08:34

mustard city law training contracts are well paid and often come with fees and living expenses for law school paid too. People have made the point that media and the arts can be much worse for expecting unpaid internships.

clmustard · 23/06/2015 18:27

But City contracts are hard to get. They are certainly not the norm or easily accessible unless you are already in the know

I agree that arts and media internships are very similar. I also believe that in those industries you will find a disproportionate number of people from well off families because of it.

saintlyjimjams · 24/06/2015 07:20

City contracts tend to go to people who have been to Oxbridge/RG universities - especially in times of recession. So to encourage people into those sorts of roles then schools need to be guiding towards the top universities.

I had a holiday placement at a City firm, decided against that type of law. I was very interested in family or criminal law (the grittier stuff, working for real people) but had no chance of funding myself through law school (would have been 2 years), so went off & did something else instead.

And yes very true of the arts. Middle son is heading for some sort of career in performing arts & we have zero support we can give! If he makes it, it'll be all his own work!

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