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Guest post: Raising gender neutral children - can it really be done?

74 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 25/04/2014 15:22

"Are you having a boy or a girl?"

It's pretty much the first question an expectant mother is asked, right after inquiries about her due date and demands to know what strange foods she's been craving. She will hear this question over and over throughout the course of her pregnancy. After the birth, well-meaning strangers will approach her, strangers who, for some reason, absolutely need to know her child's gender before they coo over how wonderful they are. Even cooing must be gender-appropriate, you see: "she's so beautiful," or "he's so strong," or "look at how sweet she is, she's such a girl."

Children are gendered to a frightening degree, and – with the majority of expectant parents finding out their child's sex during pregnancy – they’re boxed in to its narrow confines long before they draw their first breath. A baby girl can expect to go home to a pink room sprinkled with pink toys and with a closet full of pink clothing. You've got to try really hard to find gender-neutral apparel for children – shops are divided neatly into "boy" and "girl" sections, with all things related to sports and transportation and outer space on one side, and all things lacy and ruffly and pastel-coloured on the other. Right from birth, society teaches our children that they need to fit into stereotypical gender roles, or else suffer dire consequences.

Of course, gender is a social construct. Everything we think we know about how boys are different from girls is informed by the society we live in, and we reinforce these ideas in our own children in both subtle and overt ways. "Boys are so rambunctious compared to girls," we say, which in turn, influences how we treat loud, active boys versus how we treat loud, active girls. Perhaps we’re more lenient about curbing that type of behaviour in boys, whereas we might be sterner with a girl who exhibits those tendencies. We give cues to our children about what we expect from them, and in turn they modify their behaviour according to those cues - it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Society tends to conflate sex and gender, but they’re not the same and a distinction should be made. A person's sex is typically (though not always) identifiable at birth, while it might take them years to figure out how they fit into the gender roles our society has created. But we don’t give children time to figure anything out about gender – we foist all of our own ideas on them from the word go, and then hope for the best.

I'm determined to raise my son with as little gender baggage as possible, and while it hasn't always been easy, so far it's been worth it. I've given him trucks and trains to play with, yes, but also dolls and a kitchen set. I switch up the pronouns in books so that it’s not just boys doing 'boy things' and girls doing 'girl things' all the time. I try to keep his clothing as gender-neutral as possible and I let him wear his hair long because that's how he likes it, and he should be able to have his hair whatever length makes him happy.

The fact is, kids don't have an innate concept of gender - anything they know about gender, they've learned from us. When a little boy wants to play with a doll or have his nails painted, it's not because he's feminine – it's because it's fun. It's only once an adult tells him that those are 'girl' things that he creates the association. And when the adult acts as if they're uncertain or disapproving of that choice, then the child starts to feel that 'girl' things are bad or wrong. Although I'm conscious of how I teach my son about gender, I don’t think of him as a boy, really – I just think of him as my kid, his own individual person with his own likes and dislikes.

The other day, my neighbours saw him wearing pyjamas with rocket-ships on them, and they said: "Oh, of course he loves outer space – he's a boy!" But he doesn't love outer space or rockets or astronauts because he's a boy – he loves them because these things are fascinating and fun no matter what your gender. By the same token, when he takes care of his baby doll and pretends to feed it and change its nappy, he's not doing that because he's a girl – he's doing that because he's practising the nurturing skills that he's learned from his father and me. Sometimes he'll tell me that when he grows up, first he wants to be a mama and then he'll be a dada. I love that right now gender is still this strange, fluid thing to him. I hope that he keeps that belief for as long as possible.

Unfortunately, our culture routinely punishes people who deviate from the gender boxes that they've been put in. An increasing number of parents would say that little boys should be allowed to wear dresses and make-up if they want to – but the truth is that their sons will face repercussions that might be difficult, painful or even physically dangerous. Even if we as parents understand and acknowledge that letting our kids dress in and play with the things that they love is the best possible option, we simultaneously want to protect our children from any kind of abuse. It’s a fine balance, but we owe it to our children to try to find that balance – above all we want them to be as comfortable in their own skins as possible.

We need to let our kids be whoever they are and create an environment where they feel safe exploring all of their options. We should teach our children to question assumptions about gender – if they tell you that only men drive trucks, ask them why they think that and then provide examples of women truck drivers. And we must be gentle on ourselves – if you have a girl who only loves pink and princesses, don't assume that you've somehow failed to fully tear down gender stereotypes. Maybe she would have liked princesses no matter what. Maybe her best friend loves pink and your daughter wants to be just like her in every way possible. Maybe she'll grow out of it, and maybe not. The point is that it’s their choice.

We have to make them feel that whatever they like is exactly the right thing for them to like, because the truth is, wherever our children end up falling on the gender spectrum, that is exactly where they should be.

OP posts:
madwomanbackintheattic · 27/04/2014 16:24

yy, Billy - and that was their emphasis too. The children were given the full array of choices, including pink frilly and whatever, not restricted in any way to choices deemed 'gender neutral' - so would quite often choose to wear beads, grow their hair, wear princess dresses, and whatever the deemed masc equiv - trucks?

So, the aim was to raise them with no gender bias, rather than the parents refusing to allow obviously gendered items into the home. This a very different idea of 'gender-neutral' than the mn standard of avoiding the pink aisle and only buying nice primary coloured wooden toys. I know there is also an mn trope where boys are encouraged to play dollies and bf them, but in the main, obviously gendered toys are eschewed unless you are deliberately reversing gender norms.

Fascinating.

Do give Demeter Press a look, though. Grin

madwomanbackintheattic · 27/04/2014 16:27

And no mention of pink stinks
And no mention of let toys be toys

Or any of the other myriad campaigns about marketing trends.

This is a very light rehash of a very entrenched issue.

littlestarT · 27/04/2014 22:42

A subject close to my heart as mum to a 2 year old girl and 4 year old boy. The nature nurture debate is fascinating as despite raising them as equally as I can they're firmly on the princess vs dinosaur extremes. Books and adverts don't help the case and they've already picked up labels they aspire to like 'strong' and 'pretty' from hanging out with their nursery pals.

I'd written a piece earlier this month on exactly this and some interesting findings through research if anyone is interested here. bit.ly/PAzlZz

Have to share this pic. Guess it can be done by one mum :).. just not me!

Guest post: Raising gender neutral children - can it really be done?
BillyBanter · 27/04/2014 22:51

Just looked at your link.

I'm not quite so convince by the 'not gendered 70s'. Sure the whole marketing pink to girls things wasn't around, probably because people didn't have the money to buy so many toys so no point excluding them, but that's not the same as the 70s being gender neutral. Seeing as others are bringing up anecdote as evidence :p when I was a kid I had access to whatever was left of my big brothers' lego and got to play with their toy cars etc but these sorts of things were never bought for me and dollies like I had bought for me, had not been bought for them.

madwomanbackintheattic · 28/04/2014 04:22

Gosh littlestarT, why aren't you a feminist? That's really weird. Why would you not be? And why would you be so keen to disassociate yourself with feminists? Is it because it might put off blog sponsors?

As a kid in the 70s I didn't have pink toys, but as an adolescent in the 80s it was damned clear what my role was supposed to be. And what with the recent Op Yew Tree, I'm not sure I'd be holding it up as any sort of utopia.

Athrawes · 28/04/2014 10:55

I am wondering why you want to raise a child who is unsure as to his/her gender. Gender is an important part of who we are. As adults we are often uncomfortable if we meet someone and can't tell their gender.

However it is important that we raise children who are confident in the validity of their own interests and values and who don't judge others value on the basis of their gender. And it is entirely possible to do so.
My own mother back in the '70's told me that boys and girls could do exactly the same things except that boys couldn't be Mummies and girls couldn't be Daddies. I grew up clear that I am a girl, who loves fashion and am a highly qualified engineer.
My DS is loving nail polish and much to my horror guns. He has a baby doll, a highly developed sense of empathy and a fairly major lego super heroes obsession. He is quite certain that he is a boy. I think raising him with any ambiguity as to a key part of his identity would be quite cruel.

madwomanbackintheattic · 28/04/2014 14:25

Because gender is socially constructed? Ie a myth?

No one is saying a child should be raised unaware of their sex.

But if no one else knows, it rather prevents society from culturally conditioning them in to certain behaviors? Ie teaching them what they should like and what they should do, merely by virtue of what's in their pants?

It's an interesting concept, that individuals should be free to determine their own likes and dislikes, and not be channelled by well meaning adults.

There aren't enough parents doing it to know if it's a good idea, but it does make people very wary. What are they afraid of? That girls might not be made of sugar and spice and all things nice?

Isn't it weird that adults are uncomfortable if we can't pigeonhole people? Why is gender so important to us? I'd rather look at those questions than immediately revert to boxing people into categories by virtue of their genitalia, just because I've been socially conditioned to do so. And why have I been socially conditioned to do so?

madwomanbackintheattic · 28/04/2014 14:32

Identity is a very interesting notion. Why on earth should we be told what our identity should be?

Aren't you lucky that your sons likes all those boy toys that people have given him from birth?

I am willing to bet that no one ever bought him a pink Barbie tiara, spangly necklaces, or a frilly skirt for his birthday. The fact he likes nail Polish is presumably because he saw you or some other female member of your family putting it on and wanted some too - very PC of you to let him and congratulate yourself on being so open. Grin I bet no one bought him a make-up set with nail polish for his third birthday.

He could still be secure in the knowledge that he is a boy and love all of those things that no one buys him because he has a penis, no? He has been very successfully socialized. Smile. That's not a bad thing, it's very normal. We just don't see how insidious it is because it's so normal and everyday.

drinkingtea · 28/04/2014 15:22

madwoman if the child knows his or her sex, they will tell people... especially if they are a little boy with long hair and fairy wings who yells "oh my penis!" and does a commedy fake dive for the ground, laughing, when a football is kicked at them in goal... or is that "not normal"? :o

SolidGoldBrass · 28/04/2014 18:23

Because I am fairly accustomed to people whose gender is ambiguous, I find it odd, conformist and intrusive when people think it's any of their business what gender another person is.

Really, think about it. Unless you are contemplating the likelihood of some sort of intimate contact with another person (and I will include things like certain medical treatments, and, I suppose, irrational superstitious taboos) what does it matter whether the person selling you a hat/serving you breakfast in a cafe/driving the bus you catch/working at the other end of the library is male or female?

Of course, sometimes it's fairly obvious given body shape or facial hair or whatever. But my pet hate is when forms to be filled in insist on knowing when it's not relevant.

littlestarT · 28/04/2014 19:08

Sorry bit late at replying to earlier msg. First time commenting on MN!

Thanks BillyBanter for sharing your own insights. Sounds like playtime choices were helped more by parental influence than marketeers. My findings were less anecdotal than fascinated googling.

Thanks madwoman. I'm not specifically a feminist - nothing against feminists though (just my musings as a new mum/mumpreneur - no blog sponsorship either).

Agree 70s were in no way ideal. Toy-wise it just feels like kids (or their parents) had more freedom to choose as toys weren't as defined in boy and girl colours. Though at the time parents swayed more to stereotypes. Now as a parent I feel the choice is out of my hands. A brand decides whether a boy or girl will buy it and as my boy and his friends won't touch pink as it's 'for girls' and vice versa that's a lot of toys he won't ever try. (he wouldn't play with pink dolls houses. When I found a plain one he loves it). Personally I'd love to take away some of that pink vs blue so they don't feel its uncool to like it.

My own anecdote :) ..I was lucky to be brought up by a single mum that did the DIY and earned the bread. I went to a school that taught girls they could be anything they wanted to. We had lessons on how to fix cars (cool factor and all). I've worked in a male industry for over 10 yrs. Several of my friends have similar experiences. So as a generation of independent, self sufficient women I guess it's hard (though cute) to see our kids aspiring to traditional roles that we've been stamping out. Oh the irony if they aspire to take on our grandparents male/female roles? Again just personal musings though.

JadedAngel · 28/04/2014 22:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Athrawes · 28/04/2014 23:57

I suspect that it is easier to be "neutral-lite" if one has a boy child than a girl.
I don't buy my boy tiaras because I wouldn't buy them for a girl because they are, in my view, bloody silly. But I did buy him fairy wings because he wanted some. Sometimes they are fairy wings and sometimes they are dragon wings.
I buy him robust, warm, running around clothes. Largely bright colours because I like them and don't like seeing anyone, boy or girl, dressed in sludge brown unless they are a buff army type. He did spend one winter with pink butterfly gumboots because those are the ones that he chose in the store. And actually hardly anyone commented.
I like to think that I would be nearly the same with a girl but unless I had been blessed with one of each twins it is impossible to say whether I would have treated them the same. I wouldn't have dressed a girl in frills because they can't run around and climb in dresses.
My views are shaped by my own 70's feminist upbringing - I wore dungarees etc and showed no interest in pink until I was in my late 20's.

It is interesting that we do tend to want to know people's gender and I think SolidGoldBrass has a good point there - why do we want to? What is it in our intrinsic nature, our cave person background, that makes us need to know. Is it in our subconscious that we need to know to guard against any threat or offence? And if this is the case, that this is a "human nature" thing - are we wrong to avoid gender identification so long as we do not allow that identification to limit our perceptions of a person's ability?

madwomanbackintheattic · 29/04/2014 01:38

drinkingtea - what's 'normal'? None of mine have ever yelled 'oh my penis!' but at least one of them has one - it just doesn't usually come up in conversation. and why should it?

why is it necessary to know what's in someone's underwear in order to judge them?

it's largely irrelevant.

Athrawes · 29/04/2014 03:02

I certainly don't advocate that we judge anyone on the basis of what is in their underwear...Channing Tatum excepted.

What is a gender neutral toy? If we took off the "boys toys" and "girls toys" label from the shelves then all toys are gender neutral because anyone can do any job or role. Seems that would be a relatively easy MN campaign. Take away the labels in the shops.

trockodile · 29/04/2014 09:42

I love this!

Guest post: Raising gender neutral children - can it really be done?
5madthings · 29/04/2014 17:52

What is a gender neutral toy? If we took off the "boys toys" and "girls toys" label from the shelves then all toys are gender neutral because anyone can do any job or role. Seems that would be a relatively easy MN campaign. Take away the labels in the shops.

athrawes exactly what the lettoysbetoys campaign is about, it originated on mnet.

Google or look on Fb and they are often linked to on mnet.

5madthings · 29/04/2014 17:53

www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk

SolidGoldBrass · 29/04/2014 20:57

The only reason I can see for people being so obsessed with knowing other people's gender is because of gender inequality.

It's not a perfect example but: imagine how it would be if people were obsessed with knowing each other's ethnic background (in situations where it isn't obvious such as communicating online or on the phone). If someone is filling out a form to (eg) sign up to a book club or order a pizza, why should they have to identify themselves any further than name, address and payment detail?

BillyBanter · 29/04/2014 21:05

Mostly just so they can greet people appropriately, but that could be easily solved by everyone being called Mx instead of Mr, Ms, Mrs, Miss etc.

When it does matter, say on a message board*, is if it is worth my while flirting with them...

She says having called herself billy. i need to think of a new name again.

*not this one.

Athrawes · 30/04/2014 11:23

Actually I think in certain fields it is important to gather data on gender. Health and education for starters. Boys and girls brains develop differently and as educators we are required to address their differences in our teaching plans. To meet their potential boys should be taught in a different style and context to girls.

Boys may even need to understand these differences so that they can work to their best potential within an education system dominated by females. If boys don't "get" the difference between their way of thinking and working and that of the women leading their learning they may struggle to achieve.

Men interact with health services in a different way to women.
Mr, Mrs, Ms - the only really good reason for a PhD.

EmpressOfJurisfiction · 30/04/2014 16:55

A toddler was playing with one of my dogs earlier. Short curly hair, grey track suit, navy trainers, red nail varnish. I was automatically trying to work out their gender and then wondered what on earth I wanted to know for.

Elizabeth33 · 05/05/2014 20:25

What is the problem with being gender specific? I am really struggling with finding a rational answer. I wonder if it may not give rise to unhelpful confusion as your child moves in to a wider world. My baby son dragged his teddy around by its ear, my daughter rocked hers. This was not straightforward learned activity: their Father and I did neither

Elizabeth33 · 05/05/2014 20:30

PS Incidentally, I did rock them both but no-one was dragged around by his/her ear and I meant it was not learned behaviour because their Father and I did nothing to demonstrate it!

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