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Guest post: Raising gender neutral children - can it really be done?

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 25/04/2014 15:22

"Are you having a boy or a girl?"

It's pretty much the first question an expectant mother is asked, right after inquiries about her due date and demands to know what strange foods she's been craving. She will hear this question over and over throughout the course of her pregnancy. After the birth, well-meaning strangers will approach her, strangers who, for some reason, absolutely need to know her child's gender before they coo over how wonderful they are. Even cooing must be gender-appropriate, you see: "she's so beautiful," or "he's so strong," or "look at how sweet she is, she's such a girl."

Children are gendered to a frightening degree, and – with the majority of expectant parents finding out their child's sex during pregnancy – they’re boxed in to its narrow confines long before they draw their first breath. A baby girl can expect to go home to a pink room sprinkled with pink toys and with a closet full of pink clothing. You've got to try really hard to find gender-neutral apparel for children – shops are divided neatly into "boy" and "girl" sections, with all things related to sports and transportation and outer space on one side, and all things lacy and ruffly and pastel-coloured on the other. Right from birth, society teaches our children that they need to fit into stereotypical gender roles, or else suffer dire consequences.

Of course, gender is a social construct. Everything we think we know about how boys are different from girls is informed by the society we live in, and we reinforce these ideas in our own children in both subtle and overt ways. "Boys are so rambunctious compared to girls," we say, which in turn, influences how we treat loud, active boys versus how we treat loud, active girls. Perhaps we’re more lenient about curbing that type of behaviour in boys, whereas we might be sterner with a girl who exhibits those tendencies. We give cues to our children about what we expect from them, and in turn they modify their behaviour according to those cues - it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Society tends to conflate sex and gender, but they’re not the same and a distinction should be made. A person's sex is typically (though not always) identifiable at birth, while it might take them years to figure out how they fit into the gender roles our society has created. But we don’t give children time to figure anything out about gender – we foist all of our own ideas on them from the word go, and then hope for the best.

I'm determined to raise my son with as little gender baggage as possible, and while it hasn't always been easy, so far it's been worth it. I've given him trucks and trains to play with, yes, but also dolls and a kitchen set. I switch up the pronouns in books so that it’s not just boys doing 'boy things' and girls doing 'girl things' all the time. I try to keep his clothing as gender-neutral as possible and I let him wear his hair long because that's how he likes it, and he should be able to have his hair whatever length makes him happy.

The fact is, kids don't have an innate concept of gender - anything they know about gender, they've learned from us. When a little boy wants to play with a doll or have his nails painted, it's not because he's feminine – it's because it's fun. It's only once an adult tells him that those are 'girl' things that he creates the association. And when the adult acts as if they're uncertain or disapproving of that choice, then the child starts to feel that 'girl' things are bad or wrong. Although I'm conscious of how I teach my son about gender, I don’t think of him as a boy, really – I just think of him as my kid, his own individual person with his own likes and dislikes.

The other day, my neighbours saw him wearing pyjamas with rocket-ships on them, and they said: "Oh, of course he loves outer space – he's a boy!" But he doesn't love outer space or rockets or astronauts because he's a boy – he loves them because these things are fascinating and fun no matter what your gender. By the same token, when he takes care of his baby doll and pretends to feed it and change its nappy, he's not doing that because he's a girl – he's doing that because he's practising the nurturing skills that he's learned from his father and me. Sometimes he'll tell me that when he grows up, first he wants to be a mama and then he'll be a dada. I love that right now gender is still this strange, fluid thing to him. I hope that he keeps that belief for as long as possible.

Unfortunately, our culture routinely punishes people who deviate from the gender boxes that they've been put in. An increasing number of parents would say that little boys should be allowed to wear dresses and make-up if they want to – but the truth is that their sons will face repercussions that might be difficult, painful or even physically dangerous. Even if we as parents understand and acknowledge that letting our kids dress in and play with the things that they love is the best possible option, we simultaneously want to protect our children from any kind of abuse. It’s a fine balance, but we owe it to our children to try to find that balance – above all we want them to be as comfortable in their own skins as possible.

We need to let our kids be whoever they are and create an environment where they feel safe exploring all of their options. We should teach our children to question assumptions about gender – if they tell you that only men drive trucks, ask them why they think that and then provide examples of women truck drivers. And we must be gentle on ourselves – if you have a girl who only loves pink and princesses, don't assume that you've somehow failed to fully tear down gender stereotypes. Maybe she would have liked princesses no matter what. Maybe her best friend loves pink and your daughter wants to be just like her in every way possible. Maybe she'll grow out of it, and maybe not. The point is that it’s their choice.

We have to make them feel that whatever they like is exactly the right thing for them to like, because the truth is, wherever our children end up falling on the gender spectrum, that is exactly where they should be.

OP posts:
LackaDAISYcal · 25/04/2014 21:54

What's the child's name? Does that not give it away? Even with names which are considered dual-gender, there is a difference in spelling, ie Robyn vs Robin

Soozart · 25/04/2014 22:06

My son looked lovely in a pink velour top as a baby and I could see the confusion on people's faces when they saw him. As a toddler he had an Early Learning Centre tea set and later on we collected lavender and made little tartan lavender bags. A friend's mum was horrified at this just because he was a boy. He played rugby between the ages of 9 & 27 and likes to win. He has always had lots of male & female friends, several girlfriends and I think that he is a well- rounded individual. We get on really well.

drinkingtea · 25/04/2014 22:12

LackaDaisycal I have a very similar experience to you (1 girl - eldest - and 2 boys). My youngest loves to have his nail painted (ideally by his sister) but also climbs everything in sight, throws and kicks inanimate objects constantly, and mainly likes mud, cars and football, my eldest (the girl) plays football and climbs trees - as do her brothers, and she is physically and socially braver than one of her brothers and the same as the other... my older 2 (girl and boy) played a very serious game with a doll at MIL's for a full day a few days ago, my6 year old DS was very concerned that his "daughter" was overly attached to her dummy and sleeping too much ... both my boys are very boyish and my girl can be very girley when she wants, and a total sport mad, risk taking, physically brave mud magnet the next.

I live abroad, but not in a "middle class" area - more rural, not poor, farming... certainly there is not much that is "politically correct" - mothers of under 3s mainly stay at home, and then go back part time... I fairly often jokingly call my children Girl Pearl, big Boy and Small Boy Shock but my kids still seem to be fairly able to skip over the gender "barrier" at will, whilst knowing who and "what" they are... after all DD is female and the boys are male - a very tiny percentage of humans are actually gender neutral... Nobody has ever said anything negative in my hearing about boys playing with dolls or girls climbing trees/ playing football etc. etc. I have only ever read about these things on the internet and the media...

There is, I think, only 1 language (spoken by a fairly small population) which doesn't have gender pronouns... refusing to allow your child a gender does seem to dehumanise them - only inanimate objects are "it" in English...

Of course some sections of society put stupid amounts of emphasis and restraints/ expectations on children's play, behaviour and life opportunities based on gender, but simply recognising gender does not have to go had in hand with pink and babies and low expectations, or blue and muddy knees and not being allowed to be a SAHP...

I find the gender neutral approach to be more about the parent than the child, and treating your child as a social experiment seems excessively hard nosed... I think the labelling and expectations slam in closer to puberty, when everyone has lost interest in stopping it...

NotCitrus · 25/04/2014 23:12

Lacka - I still don't know the kid's sex - they're not 2 yet, though the parents did let the grandparents do nappy changes and find out. I'm not offering! The name is gender-neutral, like Chris or Kelly or Sam or Madison. Child seems to be a perfectly happy toddler.

The child isn't referred to as 'it' (which would be perfectly normal in say German where if you refer to 'das Kind' - the child - you would then use 'es' -it- as the pronoun, for grammatical reasons), and you get used to using the name or 'the baby' etc instead of a pronoun remarkably quickly. I agree using 'it' in English wouldn't be nice. I know a number of adults who identify as ungendered or a gender that doesn't necessarily correlate with appearance, so it wasn't so strange a concept to me.

I don't think of my own parenting approach as gender-neutral but as trying to be a non-gendered influence - I don't care whether my kids follow more or less gender-typical paths, but I want as far as possible their paths to be chose because of their own personalities, not because of pressure to behave one way or another. Especailly as so much of that pressure is from merchandising.

noblegiraffe · 25/04/2014 23:36

I think it's fairly easy to have a gender neutral environment for a baby, toys that promote sensory development like stacking cups and blocks are pretty gender neutral. My 15 month old DD happily plays with all the same stuff her older brother played with.

I think the couple that are going to reveal sex at potty training are actually picking the point where gender really starts to be delineated. Kids become aware of the different sexes and start policing each other and themselves. My DS who had never been told that pink was for girls suddenly started spouting it aged 3 as he had heard it from other kids, and he then went around Toys r us declaring whether each toy was for boys or girls, depending on the colour, and whether there was a picture of a boy or a girl on the box. However, he does display cognitive dissonance, he will tell me that pink is for girls, but happily drink out of a pink cup, or play with a dolly.

bakingtins · 26/04/2014 06:20

My ds2 who is soon to be four has a preference for princess dresses, wants a doll's house for his birthday and is going to be Tinkerbell for his party. My reaction has been to facilitate all this and to question why it makes me a little uncomfortable. I've posted on here and tend to get overwhelming support for letting small boys do what they want, much more Hmm IRL. As his mum I want him to be happy in his own skin, but I completely want to protect him from any backlash. I'm pregnant with a girl, so we'll see how that goes, but I'm not remotely pink or girly.
A friend's DD is feeling very isolated at primary school because she is into Lego and history, not pink and princesses, and the other girls are excluding her Sad I think childhood has become so much more gender-biased since I grew up in the seventies, and most of it is marketing. I am resisting the pressure to replace perfectly good baby stuff with the 'girl's' version! It is ridiculous that shops like ELC sell 2 versions of the same toy for girls and boys, like a girl might melt if forced to use a blue watering can!
Interesting post, thank you OP.

Sillylass79 · 26/04/2014 06:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

madwomanbackintheattic · 26/04/2014 17:24

Silly, my 12yo ds is a Brony. It's very popular. His sisters just roll their eyes and can't bear the things.

This gender stuff seems to cause most anxiety around 4-9. Fortunately I live in the kind of place where it's mostly ignored - it's a very Eco/ sporting community and there isn't a lot of room for heels in rock climbing or skiing. The most obvious signs are different coloured harnesses or skis, and they are usually a different size, so it's easier to grab the right one Grin. Dd2 has the skis that I assume were marketed for boys (they are blue and red graphics) but no one has batted an eyelid. They are more admiring of the twin tips that the colour scheme. Grin

SolidGoldBrass · 26/04/2014 18:05

An obsession with gender Difference being innate is a reliably stupidity-indicator, if nothing else. Though the most effective cure for it is for the person insisting that boys and girls are Just Different to have more than one DS or more than one DD and find out for themselves that there are innate differences between individuals rather than gender being a strict binary rule.

People who insist on policing the gender barrier are the ones who need a swift kick in the pants, because they are not only stupid but dangerous bigots. It only matters that people stay on the 'right' side of the gender divide if one gender is inferior. So it's percieved, by the stupid and sexist, as sort-of OK for little girls to want 'boy' stuff. Ahh, she's trying to imitate her superiors. Let her do it while she's little, time enough to make sure she doesn't obtain any privileges she isn't allowed to have when she's old enough to Be A Woman. Little boys wanting 'girl' stuff, however, eek yuk argh, smack them, shout at them, take it off them! They can't be 'effiminate' because femaleness is inferior and they might even Turn GAY!

madwomanbackintheattic · 26/04/2014 18:45

I'm a bit bemused that Anne doesn't reference the highly portrayed instances of gender free parenting from the media? She surely can't be young enough to have missed them?

And the 'can it really be done?' Tag line could at least have mentioned instances where it is (at least theoretically) being done, and taken issue with them, rather than a middle (class, middle) of the road portrayal of "my life with one small boy'.

Maybe I just want too much - I expected a bit more intellectual rigour from the belle jar, tbh.

rabbitrisen · 26/04/2014 20:16

I always leave pretty quick from Guestblogs who dont say anything other than the original op.
I dont think many of them do any more which is a shame.

I think they are all aware that they have been guestblogged, but I dont think that they always choose to be.

Which for me, is the reason I rarely contribute.

It is like threads started on the main board, and the only thing you get is the op.

BillyBanter · 26/04/2014 21:04

madwoman do you have info on those as I don't know about them and am interested.

yummum120 · 26/04/2014 23:04

I was told by a worker at The Co-operative Food store that Moshi monsters stickers for the sticker album were for girls when my son wanted a pack and the lady wasn't joking about it. I had to put a complaint to the manager.

stolemyusername · 27/04/2014 02:35

I find that the only people who are concerned with gender stereotyping are the parents themselves. I have seen all the hype in the media/social media and I am a little 'meh!' about it all.

I have a large family, and without any worry about 'influences' have always gone for the toy/game that appeals to them most. For example my elder ds was never interested in playing dress up, dolls or tea parties but obsessed with cars, train tracks and trucks climbing and generally being rough, ds2 by comparison played with all of these things a doll and buggy were a firm favourite for quite a period of time, and he loves it when his sister paints his nails. DS1 is a sensitive child, where as DS2 is very rough and tumble (and forever covered in bruises!)

I do worry that were actually damaging our children by forcing them into gender neutral rolls, for example there was a recent post by a friend on Facebook, of her son wearing a dress to school, fine - let the child wear the dress! But the caption was along the lines of X wanted to wear his dress to school today so of course we let him! Ok, there's nothing wrong with your parenting choices, but would you have posted this if you didn't need to prove that you are a 'progressive' parent who isn't bound by the gender constraints of society.

Encourage your children to be whoever they WANT to be, surround them with choices and enjoy them (well as much as you can enjoy a fractious, clingy 2 year old). By forcing our children into 'gender neutral' roles, I worry that we're going to have a generation who grow up simply not knowing who they are.

madwomanbackintheattic · 27/04/2014 06:11

Billy there was/ is 'pop' in Sweden.
Storm in Toronto.
And I think there was an earlier child called Sasha, but not sure where from.
All headliners in the last 4 years where parents decided to raise the child as gender neutral and keep the sex a secret.

There are probably still searchable threads on here. The media picks them up and follows them periodically to see how they are getting on.

MIRCI publishes books on gender neutral parenting through Demeter Press - they are based in Toronto and the lovely Andrea O'Reilly is heavily involved.

Anyone interested should look up Demeter Press and buy some books, by the way I am nothing to do with them, but I know that they are a small specialist press in financial difficulties. They publish books on mothers and mothering, and are frankly ace. Mumsnet could do a lot worse than support them Grin

TigerTrumpet · 27/04/2014 08:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bonsoir · 27/04/2014 08:48

NotCitrus - I don't know anyone who would talk in the inane way to small DC that you illustrate in your post of Friday at 21:42. If I did, I would be as Hmm about it as you.

SoftSheen · 27/04/2014 10:12

Just out of interest, those of you who make a conscious effort to dress your children in gender-neutral clothes, do you (and your husbands/wives) dress in a gender-neutral way yourselves?

stargirl1701 · 27/04/2014 10:48

No, DH and I don't share clothes. But, then, I expect clothes to last 10+ years. DD grows out if hers in 6 months. I expect to be able to reuse these clothes for DC2. We try to be as eco friendly as possible so reusing clothes (as well as buying second hand in the first place) is a priority. We tend to get a lot of Polarn O Pyret on eBay. It seems to be excellent quality and gender neutral.

I also see no difference in what clothes are for in young children. Boy or girl, clothes need to be hard wearing without restricting movement. High street/Supermarket clothing (and shoes!) in the UK girls clothing doesn't seem to meet this requirement.

HazleNutt · 27/04/2014 10:56

grown men and women have different body shapes, DH does not have boobs and hips like I do. Toddler boys and girls are not really built that differently that they would require different clothes.

fisherpricephone · 27/04/2014 15:34

Just out of interest, those of you who make a conscious effort to dress your children in gender-neutral clothes, do you (and your husbands/wives) dress in a gender-neutral way yourselves?

Most adult females don't wear pink frilly clothes the whole time, why should small girls?

BillyBanter · 27/04/2014 15:40

Thanks madwoman.

I do remember someone telling me something about someone refusing to reveal their child's gender and from what they said I go back to my earlier post about not wanting children to carry the burden of our social experiment when we take it so far that our child will struggle in the society that currently exists.

I don't see it as being so much about trying to make gender redundant or neutral but resisting restrictive gender stereotypes that currently exist and are, in my view, harmful. How we expect and encourage our children to behave affects their adult lives and of those around them. If we don't want men who think hoovering is women's work you need to make the change in their childhood, for instance.

Who decides what is a feminine trait and why, or what is a masculine trait and why? Once you put these traits on a grid and mark out where people are on each measure there is a lot of variety between and within individuals.

BillyBanter · 27/04/2014 15:42

pink frilly clothes can be very cute and fun though. Blush

I am a bit jealous that I can't wear some of the styles that young children get to wear. pink or otherwise. Grin

UseHerName · 27/04/2014 15:48

we are gender aware in our house rather than trying to be gender neutral

fisherpricephone · 27/04/2014 15:49

I have 2 girls and a boy. The boy is more like one of the girls than the 2 girls are like each other. The boy likes dolls, the one girl loves trains and toy cars and construction toys, the other girl would do nothing but read and write or paint if it was up to her. All three children have BF their soft toys, all sleep with a soft toy, all play with the balls, all like drawing, all like music, all like stories, all like TV, all like their bikes.

I am not a girly girl, DH is not a manly man. We both work part time and share the childcare, we both cook and clean and we both work in highly complex technical fields.

We've had comments from the less enlightened parts of the family about how we should be following gender roles more than we are (as adults, and as children). I smile nicely and ignore. If people want to limit their daughters prospects by forcing them into low paid gender roles that's their choice but they shouldn't insist that I do the same.