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Guest post from Louise Mensch: "Tony Benn represented something truly valuable in the world"

24 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 14/03/2014 17:21

I was so sad to hear - via Mumsnet in fact - of the death of Tony Benn, a man I never actually met. I did once tell his son Hillary, a Labour MP, how much I admired his father - but that was a close as I got.

Tony Benn represented something truly valuable in the world. He acted on what he believed. For his love of socialism, he was prepared to walk away from a peerage, and even from the nobility of his family name. No longer Viscount Stansgate, he wouldn't even allow people to call him Anthony Wedgewood-Benn - he was to be "Tony Benn". And so he remained, until he died.

There was that rumpled, brilliant look about the man that is so endearing to our clever, messy nation. Like JRR Tolkien, whom he resembled, he loved to smoke a pipe; a particularly English vice. He drank tea, and was well-read. He seems never to have regretted walking away from "my Lord" and the bowing and scraping of the era.

Benn also possessed, as well as conviction, a great generosity of spirit. His respect and affection for Margaret Thatcher showed him to be a man who understood that political opposition does not have to, and should not, equal enmity (more Labour MPs wrote me kind notes after I resigned my seat than Conservative ones, by the way). Benn said of Thatcher "she was a signpost, not a weathervane". That was why he respected her; and it is why I respected him.

He had convictions; he lived those convictions. He was true to himself, bright, and kind. He was raised by a feminist mother, and it showed, in the best possible way. Labourlist drew my attention to his generous piece on Thatcher which told this story:

"I remember her at the funeral of MP Eric Heffer. I was asked to make a speech and as I was waiting, there was someone behind me coughing. It was Mrs Thatcher, and at the end I thanked her for coming and she burst into tears. She had come out of respect for someone whose opinions she disagreed with."

I believe that there are a great many MPs and commentators who did not share any of Benn's beliefs, but who realise today that in him, we have lost a national treasure; a genuine servant of the people, who did not need to be a nobleman, to be a noble man. May many of us involved in politics on all sides learn from his lessons of authenticity, humility, generosity, and kindness.

KateMumsnet · 14/03/2014 20:20

Hello all

To explain our thinking - there aren't many political figures with the kind of cross-party respect which Tony Benn earned during the course of his long parliamentary career. We thought that, since obits from one's own party can tend toward hagiography, it would be interesting to hear from someone from the 'other side', so to speak - particularly since Louise Mensch is both a former MP and a MN blogger. But if you'd like to hear from someone else as well, let us know on the thread and we'll try to make it happen.

A quick reminder here about our talk guidelines.

RebeccaMumsnet · 14/03/2014 20:28

@claig

Why have the positive posts been deleted?

Hi claig,

Both of the removed posts contained personal attacks so we have removed them, robust comments are fine but it would be good to keep it civil.

KateMumsnet · 14/03/2014 21:06

Hello DrankSangriaInThePark and TippiShagpile: to clarify, it was we who approached Louise, who's five hours behind us in New York. She'd already heard the sad news though - possibly (we can't speak for her, obviously) via the MN thread in our Discussions of the Day.

SarahMumsnet · 14/03/2014 21:16

Hey Tippi and all - sorry you feel we've got it wrong. Please do tell us whom you'd like to hear from; we can't promise anything, obviously, but we can ask.

SarahMumsnet · 14/03/2014 21:37

Hey, teaandthorazine - we've had the thread on Tony Benn's death in discussions of the day since first thing this morning, and of course that's where the main discussion around his life and legacy is happening. The hope with guest posts is simply to add something to the mix, and by and large we think folks have welcomed them; this week Nick Clegg came on to talk about the Children and Families Act, and a trustee from National Numeracy wrote about how we can help our kids to get on better with maths. Again, if you feel we've got it wrong this time, do let us know whom you'd like to read - we'll do our best.

SarahMumsnet · 14/03/2014 21:38

KoalaFace, thanks for the suggestions - we'll certainly ask.

SarahMumsnet · 14/03/2014 21:41

and DrankSangriaInThePark - just spotted you said the same upthread Smile

KateMumsnet · 15/03/2014 12:21

Hello again

Thanks for the suggestions of others you'd like to hear from - we'll send a few emails now and with luck one of them will be able to help out. Apols again for missing the mark this time.

Biwi as far as I know, this thread was posted on Facebook before there were many comments - we definitely wouldn't have done so once it became clear that there were strong feelings on this. We also posted this thread on FB yesterday morning when the sad news first came through.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 19:19

@BIWI

But claig, the fact remains that Ms Mensch was the first 'go to' politician by MNHQ. And that's the issue. Of all the politicians that MN have interacted with/worked with/spoken with over the years, why this one?

This has been raised a few times and is worth addressing I think. The key point here is that Louise Mensch is part of our bloggers' network (Shirley Williams etc isn't). We're not a newspaper, we don't have notables and writers up our sleeve to pen things at the drop of the hat - we do tend to look to our own bloggers if there's a topic of interest with think might make a good guest post. Nor do we have that many politicians or ex-politicians in our network. Plus, we knew that Louise respected Tony Benn, as she'd tweeted several tributes when he was very ill.

As KateMumsnet said earlier, we hoped a tribute from the other side of the political divide would help to show what an unusual politician Tony Benn was - as many have written this weekend, perhaps one of the last of a dying breed.

For all those reasons I don't actually think it was such an odd a thought. (And I happen to know that the BBC Newsnight team clocked Louise's post and asked Ms Mensch onto their show that night to be part of the Tony Benn discussion/tribute - she turned them down as it happens and I think they had Tim Montgomerie instead).

So it was good of her, in my view to write a post so quickly and for no dosh, and it's a shame that she's drawn such personal flak that she felt compelled to defend herself, when really if you disagree with the choice of writer, you should most definitely be shouting at us, not Louise Mensch. (As, indeed, many of you are [wry smile]).

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 19:30

@Badvoc

Ok. Justine...you fucked up. Take the thread down. That clear enough?

Very clear, Badvoc! And believe me, I'd love to just hit the big red delete button, but am always a bit squeamish of deleting folks' words when they've gone to the trouble of writing them. And especially squeamish of deleting criticism of MNHQ.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 19:31

@PeggyTheGuineaPig

People were shouting at you HQ. They wouldn't have been shouting at LM had she not come on being a bit funny about her qualifications.

Several people genuinely thought she was trolling because it all seemed so very strange at that point.

Yep some people were, as I said at the end of my post. Some people were also being pretty rude to LM.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 19:33

@Badvoc

I love the muppets. I see no problem with being compared to one. (My first crush was animal the drummer from the muppets band. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions wrt my taste in men/puppets)

Well, excitingly, we may have well be having a MN videochat with the Muppets coming soon... More to follow on that, I hope.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:05

@Badvoc

Justine... Not as squeamish as those of us reading that post felt, I assure you! Is this thread really what MNHQ want people to read when discussing the late Tony Benn? That saddens me. (And you won't get round me by promising a chat with animal --or gonzo- either!)

We're not so ridiculous as to think folks will only read about Tony Benn on Mumsnet - of course it was just part of the mix. We marked the occasion with a piece from a writer in our bloggers' network who happened to respect and admire a man from across the political divide - it wasn't meant to be the final word.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:08

@ThePowerOfNo

You've had Caroline Lucas on here at least twice for webchats. She's just about the most well respected politician in the house of commons at present, & she's not Labour - you could have asked her to write something!

She's not in our bloggers' network, so I doubt she would have said yes, but she might, I suppose. It wouldn't have had the political adversary angle. I think it would on balance have been a less interesting choice, but obviously it's all about opinions...

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:09

@Northernlurker

The occasion was already being marked by genuine, informed and heartfelt postings from mumsnetters Justine. As you all at HQ knew because it was immediately one of the topics of the day.

I'm just staggered really by the thought processes here. Honestly did you think this would end well? Hmm

Why not have more perspectives, though? We have a bloggers' network - they wanted to add their slant. It's not either, or.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:16

@Badvoc

Well, this thread makes MNHQ look ridiculous IMO. You know when the DM et al mock MN? Stuff like this is all the fodder they need! Louise...it was me that called you vacuous. And after reading many of the tributes and obits for Tony Benn in the press and online forums over the last few days I stand by that comment. Obviously, I realise you will disagree!

I do disagree actually. I understand where folks are coming from but I think there were good reasons to ask Louise, as noted already.

And I'm not aware of the DM "mocking" MN - they quote MN, albeit often very selectively, all the time. But if the DM were to mock MN, on balance, I think it would probably indicate that we were doing things along the right lines, rather than the reverse.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:17

@Northernlurker

'We have a bloggers' network - they wanted to add their slant'

I thought you approached her?

We did - I mean the Bloggers Network team at MNHQ (o/w there are 3 people)

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:19

@WaxyDaisy

Justine, are you actually suggesting that this was an 'interesting choice' because of the thread it has generated? Am I too cynical to wonder if HQ guessed this might happen, and thought 'ah well, if it does, at least it'll generate some more publicity for our site'...?

No I'm not, I'm suggesting it was an interesting choice because Louise Mensch is a Tory. (And yes you are being way too cynical - this is the last think we want to happen, it's all really rather sad and in no way fitting of the political legacy of by Tony Benn)

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:28

@Badvoc

Point taken wrt the DM! but....either you want MN to be taken seriously or you don't. And this ^ is just not going to do it.

Yes I do want MN to be taken seriously and I think by and large it is. I don't think asking Louise Mensch to write a guest post about what Tony Benn meant to her undermines that in the least - as said, BBC newsnight - not newcomers to all this stuff - copied our take.

I do think everyone has the right to their opinion about the whether it was the post they wanted to read to mark TB's death and completely respect that it didn't work for everyone, for which we apologise.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:30

@BIWI

I don't think I have been especially rude to you, Louise. I have been very clear that my dissatisfaction lies with Mumsnet for inviting you to comment.

And I'm happy to state that I, Alison Starr, stand by everything that I have said here - in my Mumsnet name and now, revealing my own name.

Justine - this has been awful.

Yes, I agree the aftermath really has, BIWI

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:36

@LRDtheFeministDragon

Oh, come on.

This is absolutely absurd.

I can see that this thread was upsetting to the OP as it was upsetting to people who clicked expecting a tribute and found her piece.

But louise, you've twisted what people said, pretending there were personal attacks where there weren't. You may be doing this because you're upset, which is understandable, but it is counter-productive.

You cannot possible know people are 'shouting'. In the same way, you should not pretend people called you 'vacuous' or 'stupid' when it seems they did not (and I exclude deleted posts here, because HQ removed them promptly for your benefit).

Yes there were personal attacks imo - we deleted some really blatant ones - and it depends on your definition of course but a lot of the earlier posts in this thread are thinly veiled personal attacks suggesting LM lacks integrity or is lightweight because she has a beauty blog etc. That's the way I read it anyway.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:50

@Mycatistoosexy

Justine - a whole worse gets said in many a thread every day on Mumsnet to other ordinary posters.

Being called a lightweight is not really all that bad. Christ, I've had said worse to me at work from the public!

Well we'd delete it, were it reported Mycat. I've actually just read through the thread again and I'm surprised we didn't delete more of the personal comments tbh. It's one thing having a spat with someone face-to-face (as it were) but I'd personally be quite upset if lots of people suggested I was an intellectual lightweight (though I undoubtedly am Grin).

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 20:56

@BIWI

It's not just the aftermath that's been awful.

Yes, I understand that lots thought we made the wrong choice for a guest post on TB's death BIWI and, as you know, we are always very happy to take criticism and learn from it and don't for a moment think we get it right all the time. But I think the reaction to LM on this thread (prior to her coming on) has been aggressive and unkind and not in the spirit of life we're actually celebrating here... suspect he might have voiced any objection more civilly.

JustineMumsnet · 16/03/2014 21:00

Signing off for a bit now to deal with a few bedtime issues. Will be back later.

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