Being naughty or not being challenged?

[dobby2001]

Need some advice/perspective on something that happened today with DD aged 8.

Teacher asked to speak to me which has never happend before. She shows me a note that DD has written in claas it reads
" ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ I am sooo bored" . Teacher tells me that DD frequently ignores what is going on in class and will get her reading book out at any opportunity, irrespective of the lesson. This has come up before and DD IS an obsessive reader, but it has never got to the point where it is disrupting lessons.

I felt awful but quite conflicted as to the best way to approach the situation. DD seems to be gong through a bit of a disrespectful time at the moment, we are getting alot of defiance and backchat at home - only this morning DH and I were pondering if we are getting the start of some rising hormones eek!

So if this is her showing lack of respect and thinking she can do what she likes in class then totally behind teachers sanctions and some of our own - gifted or not we dont always get to do what we want when we want.

BUT as I have mentioned before school have just had OFSTED report stating the brightest children are not being challenged and it is only in the last few weeks DD and other bright kids are getting some (minimal) additional support.

I dont want DD becoming more and more disheartened with her schooling but equally dont want teacher thinking I am going to excuse any misbehaviour on "shes bored becuase she is bright and not challenged"

hellpp!

It doesn't matter how bright she is, there's no justification for being a diva. Can you negotiate with the teacher for her book to be confiscated during the class and returned at the end of the lesson if she has behaved?

The bad behaviour is probably because she's bored (been there with DD and DS, but different sorts of bad behaviour) - the school work should challenge her properly so she is interested, but getting the school to do this is no picnic.

I agree that she can't be allowed to behave badly/rudely but I can totally sympathise with her feelings.

I would always rather have read my books than done maths and stuff at your daughter's age too, so I can sympathise.

Unfortunately, what she did is bad behaviour....Does she find all the work in class too easy? Has the teacher said that she does? is she one of these brightest ones that Ofsted feel are not being challenged? If so, then maybe you could ask the teacher for extra work or at least more oomphy stuff for her to do?

Roffling a bit at the zzzzz bit, sounds more like a 14 yr old than an 8 yr old!

Lol Bucharest I think she DOES think she is 14 some days it didnt help the other day when she was being weighed and measured at hospital and they kept commenting on how all her measurments including blood pressure put her at 11years old

She is bright, always "exceeding expectations" on their annual gradings, came top in last terms Maths test and in a new special group for literacy they have set up post OFSTED report. Got distinctions for both Iggy junior courses she did over the eater break, coming 3rd out of 297 for the philosophy one. She does get bored if not engaged though, we have had this problem with the swim squad she is in too, then the coach got it sorted by making sure she was 1 or 2 not 5 or 6 when it came to waiting your turn has grown out of it now most weeks.

We tried to chat with her about the incident last night and to find out if she is not feeling challenged but she was too cross and embarressed about being caught so was reluctant to expand on monosylabbic grunts DH is coming up to school with me tonight when I go and collect her which in her mind reinforces that we take it seriously (DH NEVER goes up to school) and if anything needs to be said it would be easier (I am a childminder so have up to 5 other children with me then)

belledechocolate Diva made me laugh as that is exactly how she is sometimes - at other times she is the kindest most caring child you could know - and thats how others describe her not me. She has accepted she did wrong and was off to apologise to the teacher this morning.

I think when dust has settled later in the week we might have a chat about school, possibly make an appointment with teacher to explore further as I dont want her becoming dissilusioned

It doesn't matter how bright she is, she still has to behave. State schools, IME, don't stretch the brightest at primary level. I don't think it helpful to discuss this with my DS1, I expect him to behave however many times he has heard the explanation or whatever and I don't want to give him an inflated sense of his abilities (which are in fact very high, he scores 136- 141 in standardised tests every time). But there are other things to life and your daughter is being a pain.

Ds is a very bright boy so I do understand what it's like for you both. Bordom is a very regular occurance for us aswell. I know it shouldn't be like this but to be honest, the teachers just can't keep up with his pace. He grasps new concepts within minutes when it takes the rest of the class days/weeks so he's often left with nothing to do as he finishes alot faster then everyone else. I feel terrible saying this but he does alot of daydreaming. We've gone through a few schools trying to find one that will challenge him and he starts a highly academic secondary in September so we'll have to see how that goes. In an ideal world he'd have the work to challenge him but it this were the case he'd have done his GCSE's by now (he's in year 6) so he has to make the best of what the school is able to offer him. He's aware that not everyone is the same and that he has to be patient whilst other children are working, it's part of respecting others which is a skill that is important.

I would speak to her teacher, I'd also teach her patience and try to encourage her to appreciate people (especially teachers) for the people that they are. I wouldn't put up with any disrespect as she needs to value people. If she finds the work boring then encourage her to look at it at a different angle to stretch her in a different way, if she's writing a story for example see if she can use 20 descriptive words in the text, if they are having a history lesson about the Victorians she could try and think about what life would be like for the children who work in the mills vs the rich children.

Yes, absolutely, belle

When I was at school, the teachers actually did negotiate a bit of a deal with me. I had to listen to the teacher talking and I had to do all the writing work etc, but when I had done my work, I was allowed to bring and relevant book. So in English classes I could write out my irregular verbs in the first 5 minutes and then read an English novel, while the other children were still stumbling through 'I am, you are'.

Personally, I think no child should be made to sit for the best part of the lesson staring out of the window because they have finished the work; they should be given something or allowed to think something out.

Having said that, you say your dd does this irrespective of the lesson, which suggests it isn't just when she has nothing to do.

The best solution would be if the teacher was willing to negotiate some kind of deal, which involved her doing every scrap of work, but being allowed to do extra.

How do you know she is gifted?

Thank you belle some good ideas there. We saw the teacher briefly yesterday and she said DD had been a model pupil DD also said she has moved desks (teacher told me she was thinking of doing this to invlove DD more in lessons and keep her engaged) DD said she prefers new seating arrangement as she is not sat acing the clock now

Am going to give it a week and see how things pan out. wont let it drift though given recent OFSTED.

Cornsilk not sure of reason for your question? If you read my ealier message or previous postings you might know my postion.

That could be my DD1. She is year 5 & is mostly bored.
I asked her teacher for extra involvement and teacher gave usual nonsense about not excluding the other children etc etc.
DD reads around three books a week. Her teacher has now told her that the books she is reading are a bit old for her. Just cant win really.

I would reinforce the lack of manners shown is not good and will be dealt with, but I would also talk to the teacher about why it is your Dd has the time to get out a book? Is she given enough work? Is she asked to help the others in class?
All things that my DD has had to do to fill her time waiting!!

I dislike the whole G&T label. Another excuse not to teach our children properly.

I dislike it too. And I would add that state schools have very low expectations of our kids. Even a moderately bright child can achieve level 4 at the end of yr3, never mind yr6.

Thats part of the problem with this school - despite being told when we moved up from the infants school (totally seperate entity, differant headteacher, set up,over a mile apart) that they operated G+T register, had extra activities for kids etc it was all a bunch of lies - found out they have not operated any form of register for several years and first week there was told by another Parent that year 3 was a complete "non year"

I hoped she was wrong but sadly she was not turned out the new head was trying to get rid of all the rubbish teachers she had inheritied from previous rubbish administration and shoved the ones that had too much long service to sack into teaching year threes . Teacher she had then had no idea as to her charges capabilities, pretty much copying the same reports that came up from infants. It was only after 6 months of the parents being fobbed off with "its differant at Juniors they are all adjusting" that some pertinant questioning about specifics showed her to be the lazy lying mare she was

So this year she has a much better, new to the school teacher but who is very harrassed trying to address the shortfall in learning lazy mare teacher created last year. Kids like DD and another 3 or 4 I could name are being used to help out the others or otherwise left to get on. There were also alot of problems with 4 particular boys who had behavioural problems disrupting the class and bullying particular girls. This has been addressed (3 of the 4 left) but it has taken from the beginning of year 3 until now for that to happen.

Crux of all the above (sorry folks, had an emotional outpouring there ! ) is that DD has never been formally assessed as such, but the school suggested the Iggy courses, have arranged this new literacy group and she passes all their tests with flying colours - but aside from her current nice but busy teacher, I am not convinced that once anyone passes something they go any further to see how much further they could be acheiving? (hope that makes sense?)

On the upside DD went swimming tonight and was a total star, really concentrated and listened to advice from her squad coach , actually coming first in several of her heats and I was told she is doing really well and has done so for the last few weeks
I was soo pleased for her and with all the praised she positively beamed the whole way home (sorry a bit OT but i wanted to end on a positive note

That's nice to hear. The problem with the state system as I see it is that the league tables allow them to report no higher than a level 5 at the end of year 6. It's a very low target for bright children but the school has no incentive to get them any further. So they don't.

DIY is the way to go - lots of lovely enriching activities at home. Music, books, sport, galleries, museums, project, whatever. I'm not saying it should be like this, but it is, and you'll save yourself a lot of heartache if you accept it now.

FYI our school is very high in the local league tables and Ofsted rate it as outstanding.

I do as much as I can Acanthus but with up to 6 children here every night until gone 6 its not always easy. She does swimming 2 x week,Brownies on Fridays and Cycling club Saturdays (which I help organise) Saturday afternoon/Sunday is family time but as you can imagine sometimes has to include stuff that needs to get done such as DIY etc. I have recently begun to pay for a cleaner so that does not encroch on our time and cause the rows as to who left what mess

The local state secondarys are all average or below average - of the 2 exceptions 1 we are easily out of catchment and the other, based in a neighbouring authority had over 1500 applicants for 60 places for this September

We decided we could "just" afford to send her private at secondary stage only to find out both the private schools of our choice are also well oversubscribed - suggestion was to send her now but that does not help as A) she loves her primary school and has said she is not going anywhere and B) both school operate seperate seniors for which you still have to apply and emphahsies being at the juniors does not garentee a place

Any good private school will be oversubscribed, but if she's as bright as you think she'll get in at senior stage.

Is there any way you can think of to engage her and stretching her at home that doesn't involve yet more expensive clubs, as you seem to be doing more than your fair share there??

My parents were lucky in knowing languages, so they could set me to learn German and French at home at minimal cost.

My dd thankfully developed an interest in writing stories that has kept her nice and busy for the last 8 years or so: the advantage with that is that it requires no input from anybody else and seems to bring its own satisfaction.

Reading has been her other great interest: again, a nice and undemanding one as far as the rest of the family is concerned, but one that fills her mind and keeps frustration at bay. Rather than setting her books to read ( she can be quite stubborn) I used to casually talk to her about books I thought might be appropriate, to fire her interest.

She has also taught herself embroidery from some old patterns lying around in her greatgrandmother's desk, and used to spend time sketching using the advice in a sketching book.

It is very important imo for a bright child to learn to work for themselves rather than just prizing work that gets seen and ranked by the teacher.

It doesn't solve the problem of what to do in class, but it will at least make her feel that she is not wasting her life.