At what age are children in the UK identified as G&T?

[Strix]

And what/where/why/how is this register I hear of?

And how would one decide if a child is gifted/talented?

Thank you!

My point (maybe badly made then!) was you can't tell just by visiting the school. If I was shown around by my son's class teacher I would think it was a nice place to come, if I was met by the other I would run a mile. Judging whether you think a school is good has to take into consideration a combination of factors which might include how they teach children of varying abilities - particularly if your child was at either end of the spectrum.

I don't think this thread was laying into teachers though was it? I certainly wasn't, as I said previously, my son's teacher is lovely.

And teachers can be good at some things but not others. For example, DD's teacher from earlier this year (had change of teacher for the class in Nov) is very good with the children. I was delighted when I found out she would be DD's teacher. Again, great with the children. But I then came to find out she was absolutely appalling with communication with the parents. I sent her e-mails, wrote her letters, asked her specifically to call/e-mail/write in response and I never got a peep out of her. This has well and truly ruined my faith in her as a teacher. And I hope I never have her as one of my children's teachers again.

Don't worry we've all been there! I have only ventured onto this part of the site by accident really and am slightly bemused by some of the reponses as to it's all a load of crap and about middle class mums being competitive.

My son isn't on a G&T (always makes me think of gin and tonic)list but is bright and eager to learn and the school have responded to that which I am really pleased about. I haven't gone around with a big badge saying look at me, aren't I the best parent in the world but I do care very much that he has a good education and is taught to enjoy learning.

I really don't know why people have a problem with it (although I acknowledge I'm not in eduction so don't witness first hand the continuing policy changes), as someone said earlier, if it's just a numbers list then it's pointless but if it's about helping the children then it's great.

I agree with you Riven. These extra activities should be available to all. But, they are not. And I have to position myself within the existing system. So need to know how it works.

I think 6/7/8 is too early to be streaming children into groups personally. But, it is what is it, and so I try to see my children are challenged and not told things like "You can't be in group 2 because those words are very tricky" suggesting to the child that she is not up to the task. (this was said to another child in DD's class)

I do not have any blind faith that the school will do what is best for my children. So I am just educating myself here so I know what to ask when I meet with the teachers.

Incidentally, DD now has a teacher I really like. (she talks to me on the phone, and get this when I write her a note... she writes one back!

Strix I agree about the streaming too. At the beginning of year 1 we were told that they would be streaming for maths which I thought was very young. It worried me that they would all know which was the 'clever table' and which was the 'thick table' (which they suss out very quickly!) and it also worried be that they were being labelled publicly so young and also what it would do to their own self belief.

can I just say, in that last post my tables comments isn't what I think, I was trying to put childrens words in!

See I'm in Scotland, we don't have G&T - officially.

But my dd1 has extension maths work as homework and in a small group of 4 in her class as she is fabulous at it (it will mean little to anyone but she is working at level E in p5) She's also encouraged to push on in art - her art is exceptional and has sold for money when she entered it to an exhibition.

Ds in primary 3 is doing maths at level D (primary 5 normal) and his reading is "best in the class" according to the teacher - he is doing some language activities with the next class up.

Dd2 is doing none of this. She's just normal. Its great!

I don't care if they are G&T or not. Its not a label here so I don't have to worry. But G&T or not, they are being pushed to the maximum of their ability and that is what a good school is all about (kids are state educated in a bilingual school).

I've so far only skim-read this thread but IME the G&T thing is pointless. My DH's son was put on it and he's clever, but I wouldn't say he was gifted (more to the point, neither would he or DH). I think he ended up on it because he was the only one in his crappy school who could count!
It's done him no favours either, except a few extra school trips. It just made him very complacent, and the teachers just assumed as he was on G&T he would easily ace exams, so he was predicted high grades even when failing the class! He is now on course for straight Ds if he's lucky. He actually told me recently he wished they hadn't put him on it.
Not that we're bitter or anything.

It can't mean much if it is the top 10% in every school can it? That's a bit mad.

DS has high IQ (proud mum emotion) but isn't on G&T - not sure his school does it - but is well on the radar of the SEN.

Does it matter? Surely all schools should be promoting and encouraging their top pupils with extension/higher work and topping up those who are struggling and lets not forget the majority in the middle. That pisses me off that if you are average Jo you get nothing.

I think that's meant to be the point of it though claricebeansmum, most teaching is aimed at the majority, SEN is recognised and supported and the children who are most able in the year are also recognised and extended.

The only time it's crap and pointless is if the school just do it as a numbers excercise (which sounds like MMMs school?).

But one school's top 10% is not going to be the same necessarily as another so across the nation our G&T register is full of all sorts. Very strange.

I don't find that bit strange, I think they just adjust their targetted lessons accordingly.

Home educationg seems a rather radical jump. It would not suit us for a variety of reasons, not least is the fact that I am not qualified to teach all of the areas of the curriculum. For example, I hate English. I don't have the patience for it. And I would make a terrible teacher on that subject.

Math, on the other hand, I can get excited about. And I can outperform those numskulls on the recent channel 4 Kids Don'tCount program. In fact, my 6 year old can outperform most of them as well.

I am a link governor for G and T. It does vary in every school and as pp have said gifted in one school will mean average in another. The new govt guidelines are actually for the top 2% but LAs still mainly stipulate the 10%. How it works in our school is the co-ordinator keeps a data bank of those children proved to out perform their peers significantly in various areas (gifted for reading, writing, maths and science and talented for eg sport, music, arts.), and monitors closely those who fall just outside the 10%. It works well at the moment for the older children as they get extra lessons, workshops etc but the younger ones don't really, it is being worked on though. Each teacher does differentiate according to their needs but they do that anyway so G & T doesn't mean a great deal - just the 'more able' group that has always been the case.
In our school they don't go on a register til Y1 but are monitored in nursery and reception, there can be so many discrepancies and different speed of development so young. My ds is on the register (now Y1) and wasn't officially on it in reception but his teacher always gave him extra work/different work from the rest of the class. Now he is in a mixed Y1/Y2 class it is easy for the teacher as he works in the top Y2 ability group.
It's a bit of a nothing really, G&T...very fluid as well, some children can be on it one term then off it the next, if for example they have a 'learning growth spurt' then slow down again.

CBM: as I said above, when they asked nicely a lot of schools didn't implement the G&T programme. They put up the "we don't have any Mozart/Einstein here" argument. The Govt had to come back and say that they were not looking for wunderkind merely the top end of the ability rang, and defined it as the top 10% of any school (because every school must have a top 10%, even if they are not 10% on a national scale) so none could duck out.

So it may be a strange way to do it but it is the outcome of resistance by schools/teachers.

by easter in reception, DD1 was "selected" in a group of 6 pupils across the year (90 intake) for an extra lesson once a week with the "G&T co-ordinator". i guess this means she is on the list though i have never formally been told this.

in that lesson they talk about poetry, dreams, wishes etc. as they progress up the school they do latin (yr 5 & 6).

i think it's good, so does DD1 (now in y1). it is the highlight of her week - going out of her main class to a small room for some activities. i like that they are getting something extra and it also gives the other children something to strive for.

and no gifted does not mean genius.

my nephew is on the G&T list for sport, all it means is he is "talented" and is therefore allowed to miss school for his sport, and gets someone to oversee his work to ensure he is balancing his "talent" with his schoolwork.

and as madhairday says, the list is fluid. of the 6 children chosen last year at easter in reception, 4 are the same now but 2 have changed. dds greatest motivation to keep trying/working is that if she doesn't she won't be going off to this lesson. don't underestimate how hard it is to get bright children to keep trying when they find everything fairly easy, extension work may stretch them a bit but to really challenge them and for them to try new things they can't initially do, needs an extra resource.

Amida, your state school offers latin? You are close to us, can I have a hint for which school it is? First letter maybe?

only for the group of 6-8 children identified as G&T in year 6.
St J.

Thank you.