G&T Girls and Friendships

[slotnicki]

My dd who is in Y4 is having a bit of a difficult time at school. She has one really good friend and they spend much of their time together. Since September my dd has experienced quite a few problems in terms of getting on with other girls in her class.

I had a meeting with the school last week and was told that one of the issues is that she (and her friend) are 'different' from the other children in the types of games they play (quite elaborate imaginary play) and their humour (zany, Monty Pythonish). I was also told that she very 'grown-up' in her vocabulary/speech and there was a possibility that the others are jealous of her achievments.

As I pointed out at the time, I don't actually think that this is particularly different from other children that I have come across - though I do think that the girls in her class do seem to have a different set of interests. For example, they are forever quizzing my daughter about what she knows about pop music (not that much, but she has decided to develop this interests!) However I'm at a bit of a loss to know what to do about all this and just wondered whether anyone had advice?

No advice but dd is similarly feeling excluded (also year 4) and is bright. She isn't sporty or especially girly and because of her petite size is cast as the baby role in any games. At home she plays elaborate imaginative games with her older brother. She used to be friendly with a couple of boys but they play footie now. So she spends many breaks on her own or doing an activity.

My DD had this problem when she was in (state) primary. It was heart-wrenching for us.

She has moved onto a non-selective independent senior school and is flourishing. She still stands out academically, but not all round. I think in her primary school, they basically just had literacy and numeracy lessons, and very little in the way of art, music, PE, drama. Now that DD is exposed to these subjects she is a lot more 'ordinary'.

Thanks - whilst it really upsets me to think that there are other children experiencing the same sort of problem, I feel it is good to share. I really wish that schools would do a little more in terms of 'owning' the issue and taking a more proactive approach. My dd is also left on her own in the playground if her friend isn't at school (and I know that she is not the only one) but I cannot understand why the staff in the playground don't do more to address this.

I have seriously thought about moving her to a different school, as I think that it is the size/make-up of the school that is making this the problem. I think that in another type of school she probably wouldn't stand out quite as much - however there are aspects of it that she really enjoys.

Yr 4 was horrendous for my dd - I think sadly the girls grow that bitch gene about then and a lot haven't yet developed empathy - dd was bullied and just found the whole year horrible.
Yr 5 was ok and yr 6, for her, is oddly going well - but she is now friends with a totally different "set" - 2 can be spiteful, 1 is odd/eccentric but great fun, the other 5 are bloody nice!
Poor kid just has to ride it out, can you encourage new friendships, have different girls over for tea?

dd is at an independent school so don't think changing necessarily solves the problem, girls are universally like this. I'm not sure she is even consciously excluded much of the itme , just feels on the periphery. She does Brownies and choir outside school which has helped her find a different niche. I need to speak to her teacher anyway as her report suggest she is now coasting in class (maybe to avoid standing out ?) and will raise the social issue again. Hope things improve for your dd slotnicki

I do find it really depressing how limited the 'accepted' ways of being are among children as they get older in primary school. For boys, if they're not interested in football things can get very sticky, and girls have to know about High School Musical/X factor etc to fit in. I have two neices, both in y4 - one is not at all academic but very socially switched on, the other is very bright but very eccentric and she's miserable and I look at dd (currently in y2) and fear that's going to be her experience in a couple of years' time ...

however, ds1 didn't really fit in at all at primary and is now at an academically selective secondary and his social opportunities have multiplied beyond belief - there are just so many more potential friends there, and many more different ways of being accepted, so it may be that your dd just has to grin and bear it for the next couple of years and reap the rewards in secondary

DS2 is Y4 and currently going through the not liking football stuff. It is really tough and does limit the friendship pool, though he is lucky that he seems to have 2 or 3 good friends who also don't like football - yet. He just says he thinks there are much more interesting things to do than to run around after a ball (a view with which I sympathise).

He is bright too and, listening to him in the car with some classmates on the way to a party the other day, I could see that verbally he is a little different and why that could be unappealing to other 8/9 year olds. I don't really know what to do about it, since saying 'Don't use such grown-up words' isn't fair or possible; I don't want him to be embarrassed. (He accused me of being 'pedantic' the other day and, while that was accurate, it was also a clear case of pot and kettle, as only earlier he'd been berating his brother for using 'legend' as an adjective instead of 'legendary').

DS1 (11) has just started at an academically selective secondary and I think DS2 would love it there.

sg, ds(11) went through similar but has in the past year or so found a niche with more academically inclined boys. He is definitely not sporty either by inclination or physique (dyspraxic, hyperflexible). It helped having had him assessed by an Ed Psych which revealed he was verbally 4-5 years ahead of his age as a result he has been given more opportunities by school to be recognised for this and therefore more easily accepted.

I'm glad that your son's found some like-minded friends, LIZS. DS2 seems quite happy at the moment but I know from DS1's experience that the football pressure just gets worse.

To be honest it is important that children have knowledge of the language of the playground.

DS was not a football player but was interested in pokemon/yugioh cards which opened up a lot of friendships for him. His best friend for many years was the complete opposite to him. BF did not have an academic bone in his body, complete mischief maker, very cool, football playing and the most popular boy in the class.

DS is/was quiet, well behaved and very academic but they were very close friends for a long time and used to plan what business they would do together when they grew up.

When DS started secondary he joined lots of clubs and the friends he made tended to be a lot older, although now in yr9 I think his peers are finally catching up to him.

Yes, I agree, Bruffin. Both my boys have always been very keen on the 'superhero dimension' which is useful for friendships: DS2 has been variously interested in Batman and Doctor Who and Pokemon and CrazyBones and Ben 10. It's just that the football takes over as a playtime activity as boys get older and all the other interests get shoved to the side. DS1 capitulated in late Y4 and became one of the football players. DS2 may yet do that.

My dd is in year 2, she has always been very popular at school, however this year her best friend has paired off with another girl and dd is now feeling very excluded. As she has always appeared to have lots of friends we didn't think this would be too much of a problem for her. Dd is not like many other girls in the fact that she is a bit of a tom boy and enjoys playing football, is very sporty and is also on the G&T register for academic achievement. She often comes home from school now and says that she didn't have anyone to play with, when quizzed about this it appears that she doesn't like playing the games that her friends like to play!! She seems to like the company of older children but the playground is segregated for different key stages. We don't want to make too big an issue of this by asking her every day who she has played with but it also breaks my heart to think she is unhappy at school. Any ideas??

Hi suzier68, my dd2 is in Y2 and a very similar situation, except her only BF moved far away. She is fortunate to have an older sister who is simlar but more sociable and usually willing to include her, but in a different playground as KS2. Apparently this week the infants playground is closed due to snow and delighted dd2 joined immediately with dd1's (Y5) friends and built an igloo.

I'd love suggestions myself-I have spied on my dd2 over the fence and she is often wandering around on her own at playtime. She is liked by several nice boys but not into football or good at sports, and looks down on "barbie" or "HSM" girls, who huddle in groups, which is most of them it seems.

One idea is if you have access to an older girl outside of school (relative, neighbour) who might include her in games or sociable activities, then she can get more of a knack for playing with or at least getting along with all sorts-an important skill!

I was the same as a child; I had my own style and found it difficult to relate to other children who couldn't share that. (What I didn't have, for my most of my school days, was a like-minded friend).

Dd otoh has been a lot more successful socially. It's not (I think) because she is less gifted than me, but she is a lot more flexible; she will gear her language and topics of conversation to the person she is speaking to; she seems to be thinking of the other person and how they might feel in a way that was quite simply beyond me at that age. I reckons she gets it from my MIL.

I think there was a virtue in my way of being too- refusing to compromise- but it wasn't the kind of virtue that makes other people feel good about themselves.

Perhaps we need people of both kinds. And I would add that I have not been permanently socially excluded; just that there were a few years that were a bit rough.

DD had an awful year 2- so bad she has now changed schools!

Year 3 has been much better & I like the way her new school encourage all children to play together and discourage 'best' friends. However, she is still feeling the pull of one particular girl (another new girl) and as much as school try to help I think it is as much to do with her demeaner.

Somehow, she doesn't seem to recognise 'bitchy' or non-complimentary behaviour in others. Although not a Saint by any means, she does seem to have huge empathy with others & this sometimes means she cannot find the will inside to say 'no thank, I'd like to play with somebody else today'. She'll get there, but it's a huge learning curve!

Discouraging 'best' friends is definately the way to go IMHO!

no advice to add, I'm afraid, we had this with DD1 in Y3 and Y4 especially, and it didn't really get better till secondary. We tried to make sure she had a general knowledge of music and (some) TV, so at least she knew what the others were talking about. Fortunatly it was aroudn the time when Harry Potter became popular, so I took her and a friedn to see the film on a preview weekend, before the "cool" girls, that kind of thing helped a bit.

I agree with Shringking about keeping up a little bit with what is currently "cool". I have 3 girls who are extremely geeky love maths and reading and do not like things like HSM. This has sometimes made school quite difficult for them. I now make sure that I always know what the next "big thing" is.

My older dds are always able to tell me these days but you can usually find out in the papers or on the cover of radio times etc. We then discus these things if not watch them. Often they are not interested in watching them . We talk about Big brother and what it is and discuss the names of soaps and main characters etc. If Go Gos are the curent fad I make sure they have a few.

Currently the topic of converstion in dd age 10s class is Glee so we have watched clips online and listenend to the music. It is a shame that we have to do this but it really helps them.

Unfortunately, there are no other girls that get excited about the christmas lectures in her class We made sure on their return to school that they knew about the new Dr Who etc.