Do the schools assess for this at primary level?

[SolidGoldBrass]

And if so, what happens? Is there something I should do before DS starts school?
He is 4, can read whole books, follow a tube map (and happily tell everyone how to get across town from specific start point to specific destination) count up to about 500, do simple arithmetic...

Sorry to go off topic, but Lockets - One of the first things they did with my DS when he was put on the register was to select box full of both fiction and non-fiction books for him and he now manages his own book changing rather than relying on the teacher.

It's less effort for th teacher as she just needs to change his once he tells her he's finished it, also it makes him master of his own destiny and he can pick what he wants to read, and the inclusion of non fiction has fuelled an obsession with planets and dinasaurs!

I'd definitely talk to them about that - if your child is g&t for literacy at least they should be able to sort out some books to support that and let the child control what they read.

Also, if they didn't have anything appropriate to read from school I have in the past said in the reading recod that he just wasn't interested, and instead recorded what we read at home from our own books - it isn't just up to he school to provide his books! I haveno qualms at all about saying the homework/books provided weren't read or done due to inappropriate level.

on the one hand, he does sound very bright

on the other hand, he may well still enjoy school

they do not spend all day going 'A is for Apple'- there is so much going on in reception these days

"'Being on the G&T register' doesn't necessarily mean anything, though. So insisting your child is on a register wouldn't mean they got anything special. It depends on the school."
It certainly should! The DCSF and your local authority have a lot of information on what schools should be doing for those on the G&T Register.

But aren't there schools that avoid putting children on the Register? I know a few. The net result the is less work for them and easier and "less pressured" work for the child. They can "even the child out" in a few years and counter the unfair middle class advantage the OP has given her DS

SolidGoldBrass, I must emphasise that not all schools are like that but you can't go by appearances. It's well known that some teachers talk the talk but secretly hate the whole G&T concept.

Oh well. I keep forgetting we have a bit ofa a secret weapon in the form of DS' dad's mate's mother who used to be involved in some association for gifted children or something... will just see how it goes for the time being.

ihavenosecrets,

I am a teacher
I see a lot of kids in and out the door
I don't think the descriptions of the OP's child is of G&T stream. Yes, he's obviously quite smart, but in my experience not g&t.

I certainly wasn't being dismissive

Note to SGB: observe the last two comments. From teachers. This is the sort of attitiude you will come across.
Do not make the rookie error of trying to tell your teacher that DS is G&T, because they will set their heart against it.

"I don't think the descriptions of the OP's child is of G&T stream. Yes, he's obviously quite smart, but in my experience not g&t."
So what percentage in your opinion as a teacher qualify for G&T? 2%? 1%? 0.01%?
(This question is directed at hana)

Well I appreciate the govt. definition of G&T is simply in the top 10% but I personally think that's downright absurd. That means that there are a huge number of independent schools whose pupils would entirely fall within this definition (and presumably most grammars). Of course these kids are very bright but I find the use of the word "gifted" bordering on the bizarre. I have a first from Oxford but would never in a million years see myself as "gifted".

Nice job of helping hana out there!

Not sure what you mean. I personally don't have a percentage in mind but just think the use of the word "gifted" to describe someone who is simply bright is very odd.

Yes, but it's silly to keep arguing over the definition of the word 'gifted'. The terms 'Gifted and Talented' have been adopted by the govt to refer to a particular set of initiatives and behaviours that should apply to the most able children in a cohort. The word 'gifted' has been used in this sense in other countries, including the US and Australia, for years. So it's clear we're not talking about Mozarts or infant genii.

I too have an Oxbridge first and am definitely not 'gifted'. But I would have been on the 'Gifted and Talented Register'.

Well OK but I think it's an incredibly sad indictment on the state education system that they have to apparently label bright children with this in order to ensure they get the appropriate level of education.

SGB - we were in a similar situation to you and decided to say nothing and see what they did. (Our latter experience is that teachers do not like being told that a child is particularly able, so we're glad we said nothing.)

I want to encourage you by saying that the reception teacher was really great: within two days she had written in his reading record to ask what he read at home so she could give him appropriate books, and they sent him up to year 1 for literacy to stretch him. He learned loads about getting on with other kids and dealing with institutional life, so even if lots of stuff wasn't new to him reception was still a worthwhile experience. (Friends have had more negative experiences with their DC, so I know this is not the norm for everyone.)

We did loads with him at home, trying to broaden his knowledge rather than advance him and as soon as we could we started music lessons which have kept him stretched. The best compliment we have had came recently (DS is now 11 and has got an academic and a music scholarship to secondary school) from his teachers who said that they had never met such an able child who was so 'normal' - able to relate so well to adults and peers. That meant a lot to us as you can imagine.

All the best with helping your DS.

''Do not make the rookie error of trying to tell your teacher that DS is G&T, because they will set their heart against it. ''

I think this is wise advice. Personally, I would give the teacher a term and see how well she gets to know your dc. If you are unsatisfied after that time, and he is bored/under-challenged, I would start raising the issue. This is the attitude I plan to take myself.

I'm astonished that some people think your dc would probably not fall into the top 10% - he surely would at present.

Agree with Acinonyx. It would be an extraordinary cohort if the OP's son wasn't in the top 10% at the moment.

How is that normal for 4 year olds?

So he may not be a genius but to even read and pronounce some of these tube stations, let alone direct your way through the underground can be a feat for children aged 8+ (and some adults)!

Have to add Hana, that if that is normal then schools are filled with moronic children because virtually none of them can do this before they start school, let alone in the first couple of years. What worries me more is if you had been my DC's teacher you would have ignored their abilities eventhough they have IQ's in the top 0.0001%.

The top percent within a school labelled as g & t is not actually representive of the actual g &t. Especially at primary school age because childrens brains develop differently. Children from birth until seven have amazing minds, memories and capabilities. If they are lucky they will have opprtunities to learn numeracy and literacy prior to starting school. Some won't even touch on it until they start school. Some attend nursery some don't. So obviously the ones who have had the opportunity will be up there in the top percent. SEN kids with support could be up there! Kids with barriers probably not. So how can you take it for granted that your child is g & t. How accurate can that be? The educational journey is a long one and a bit like the grandnational. You have great starters, plodders and fallers!

"So obviously the ones who have had the opportunity will be up there in the top percent."
If the top children by ability aren't labelled as G&T then you teachers aren't doing a proper job, the job you are being paid to do.

Any teacher who is unable to tell roughly which of her class is in the top 10% is incompetent.

Any teacher who puts children in G&T based on parent-encouraged achievements rather than natural ability doesn't have a clue and needs some basic re-training about G&T.

Any teacher who avoids putting SEN children or disadvantaged children on the Register (doing her job) because of her personal prejudices against G&T should stop working with SEN children.

Any teacher who avoids putting an SEN child on the Register purely because that child had parents who bothered to spend quality time with her... needs to be barred from working with SEN children.

Any teacher who argues that because children have amazing minds from birth to seven there aren't some children better/smarter/cleverer than others... should do the world a favour and quit teaching.

Anybody disagree with any of that?

When my friend did her Teaching degree they spent half a day on gifted children so it's not surprising that they are clueless!

I want a first from Oxbridge.

dadatlarge The top ten percent are there because of test results within a subject area do you agree with that?

Not all g & t kids achieve through formal testing procedures.

the top ten percent do!

It isn't representive.

Ability doesn't always reflect what is achieved when actually tested.

For example you can be totally aware of a child with dyslexia even if they are not labelled so. You are aware of a child that is able. They are not always represented within the top ten percent because they don't achieve it.

A teacher is totally aware of her class and the potential they have. They are not always the top ten percent achievers on paper though.

Teachers don't avoid putting anybody on the g & t register???

Parents who bother with their children???
what are you on about??

Unfortunately some parents don't bother with their kids. That is a fact!

There is a system at work here though. I have had experience personally with my son who is dyslexic. I spent loads of quality time with him. He was never entitled to sen or a statement because he was not falling below enough to earn one. He didn't qualify for extra time with tests in primary school nor a reader. So yes he didn't get support because I was told I had helped him too much and I was to stop helping him.

It's not that teachers believe this but there is a system at work. To be honest my son didn't want the label, or to be any different to any other child. He wanted to blend in and not stand out. He is 18 soon and working and earning a lot of money. He is actually gifted with making things, cars, engines motorbikes. He has been able from a very young age.
He spent most of his schooling in the bottom groups with all the kids that just wanted to mess around. He hated school because of this. Verbally you could see and hear that he was incredibly intelligent.

How do you judge intelligence , some kids ARE smarter academically who would disagree with that. Some are not measured correctly. Young children have sponges for brains and soak everything up.