Aren't ALL children gifted and talented in something?

[pamelat]

Sorry I am new to this topic area but had a quick flick through and may not have done the topic justice, its just that I feel that all children/people are gifted or talented.

Take my DD, 10 months and only just learning to crawl (lazy monkey) and only doing commando style crawling BUT I am so proud that in my opinion she is so talented! She may as well be the first baby to ever crawl for how proud I am of her!!

I think that parents, friends, relatives and even schools are bias.

Who can really say whether anyone is of superior intellect or not?

At school my parents were always told that I was G&T (oh I quite fancy a gin and tonic!) but really I am very average but just went to a poor school. I was only G&T compared to the other students there. This came as a bit of a shock to me in the big wide world of work!

I am sure that there are the few exceptional cases of child genius, but I think that we all have the "right" to consider our little angels or terrors are exceptionally talented.

I think this may depend on the school/LEA, Claw. Don't give up too early, keep badgering them, be prepared to make a nuisance of yourself. Speak to the SENCO first and get him/her on your side.

It sounds like lijaco has had a very bad experience of her school. I also had a very bad experience at first, but in later years things have got a lot better. But you still need to go in with the expectation that these people are there to help you- and shame them if they don't!

claw3 It is not PC as you put it. the expression "dumb" has not been used for years/
just because he is your brother doesn't make tha expresion any less offensive.
being rude to NMC is hardly debating

2shoes - I wasnt being rude to NMC, just pointing out i was referring to my own brother so it obvious wasnt intended as a derogatory remark.

Cory - As Lijaco said if he is a high achieve, will he receive help for his SN, that was my main concern.

Or if i push for help for his SN will the fact that he is capable of achieving suffer?

What does an IEP involve?

NMC - as I said earlier, our LEA doesn't attach funding to any statements under 20 hours per week. The funding is already lumped together and devolved to schools to decide what to do with.

I'm not even sure that there is a separate budget line for SEN.

Just spoke to the SENCO at the school. It is extremely unlikely that a child like my ds will receive a statement or IEP. It would appear that with cut backs being made, they have to target children with learning disabilities.

Although she added the school do meet the needs of all pupils!!

littlefish, if a child has a statement then everything on that statement must be funded from either LEA (things over £1000) or school (things under £1000).
A statement is a legal document. If either the school or LEA isn't supplying what the stament says then take them to tribunal.
Claw, if your child has a SN then you have a legal right to ask for an assessment for a statement from the LEA (not the school). They will assess your child and decide if he needs extra help and name a school in part 4. Any extra help written in the statement must be provided. If the LEA decide that his SN isn't enough to require a statement you may go to tribunal over that - althugh you will be required to provide evidence that your child needs additional support. I'm assuming if he has SPD then you have SLT and OT already in place? They can provide written statements to back you up for tribunal. Plus your paediatrician letter stating his diagnosis.
Tribunals are not scary, just time consuming and the last one I went to they wiped the floor with the LEA and awarded the child more help than the parents had asked for. And the LEA had to abide by the decision.

Claw3 - I would wait and see what happens when you get to school. It may be that some of the difficulties that you DS has may mean that he is put on SA (school action). If he is then he should have an IEP (individual education plan). He may need help with social situations, especially if he has sensory issues. Many schools run social skills groups which would be only for children who have these issues. Not all issues are about academic learning and many schools do small group work to address them.
As others have said getting a statement is something else altogether.

NMC - The LEA that my dc go to school in have a system in place where statements below 15 hours do not come with additional funding, the school has to give the support that is written on the statement, but it has to use its devolved funding to do so. They recently raised the figure from 12 hours to 15 hours. This means that parents now fight to try and make sure that their statement is for more than 15 hours so that money actually comes to the school with the child.
I believe that most schools have to fund the lower level of statements from their own budgets, although I think that it is the LEA that set the cut off point in hours, so it may be that every LEA is different.

grassisgreener - call IPSEA and take the LEA to tribunal. IPSEA will tell you exactly what you are entitled to by national law. Many LEA's do break and bend the law and assume parents wont know or wont have the energy. It always pays to know your laws.
I met with our LEA bod a couple of weeks ago and he got quite nervous after I'd corrected him a few times and quoted from the Education Act, Humans Rights Act and the UN Rights of the Child. I also had the tribunal form in front of me and made a point of asking him for hisname spelling
Right now they are dragging their heels about the music therapy I got put into dd's statement and saying its up to the school to find it. No it isn't I said and also said I will engage a private music therapist and bill the LEA which I am entitled to do so. (haven't managed to find one yet!)
Special Kids in the UK is full of knowledgeable poeple who will advise on getting a statement, getting what you want into it and then making the LEA pay for it.
It is tough and hard work but no-one else gives a crap about your child so never expect the LEA or school to 'do the right thing'

Needmorecoffee - Thanks, helpful advice. I havent actually been given a formal diagnosis yet, this has been going on for about 2 and 1/2 years. Basically started off with dietician, he couldnt help, so referred back to paediatrician, who then referred to child psychologist, who couldnt help, so referred back to paediatrician, who then referred to OT. My son was suppose to receive speech therapy, but due to ST's leaving etc, he never has!

He is currently receiving OT, has had 5 appointments so far, so still early days, she suspects sensory processing disorder and G&T.

your OT can provide a report but you may have to nag the paed. explain about the statement.
you can strat the statementing process without a dx too, they will write to paed.

isgrassgreener - Perhaps i am jumping the gun a bit, i cant help it i do worry!

The SENCO did say that he will be put on Early something or the other, which i think is what you were describing as school action. But she did say that as from today actually, due to cut backs, that children who would have normally received a statement or a IEP, wont be!

Needmorecoffee - Only problem is before i start pushing for anything i want to make sure my son does have what they suspect.

I also want to make sure that once 'labelled' he will actually receive any extra help, otherwise the label would be pointless, kinda a vicious circle isnt it!

NMC- As far as I know the LEA are not doing anything illegal, they consulted with schools and parents when they made the changes to the hours from 12 to 15.
I know my school was not happy about the changes.
It's not that they don't give money but, it is all down to the complicated way that schools are funded, they are given money based on the number of SA, SA+ and statemented (under 15 hours) children they have, but it's also tied up with other things like the number of children who have free school lunches, the number of children with english as a second language etc.
Also it is given in a lump sum and the school decide how to split it up in the most effective way. My issue is that it is not ringfenced and the school could choose to spend it on something else.
This means that it is always a fight for the parent to make sure that they are getting the help that is stated on their statement and the fight becomes with the school, which is much more negative than when you are fighting with the LEA.
Of course you can go back to the LEA and say that the school is not doing what it should, but it's just all so negative.

NMC - I know that schools have to provide what is on the statement, however, what the new system does is makes schools unwilling to push for statements as they know that it will tie their devolved funding into particular avenues of support. The parents in my current school are extremely unlikely to push for statements themselves.

I know it's crap for those children with additional needs but the schools I've worked in are simply trying to do the best they can with limited budgets.

That last phrase was worded really badly! Apologies if it offended anyone.

The schools in which I've worked are trying to do the best with limited budgets, but time and again, the pressure falls upon overstretched teachers and TAs to support all children with limited time, resources and training. This is particularly the case in the school where I currently teach. 60% of the school are on School Action Plus or higher. In fact, 18 out of 25 of my class have IEPs, language plans or behaviour plans. Due to low class sizes, the school has a huge deficit budget and simply has no money for additional TAs or training. Our classwork is differentiated hugely, we use our TAs to support small intervention groups throughout the day, other TAs run language groups, plus we have a nurture group. It's just not enough though!

Thanks, you guys obviously know what you are talking about when it comes to help with SN's. As i said relatively new to it all, thanks again for putting up with me (and what must seem like really stupid questions!)

Claw - the label is always worthwhile. You might be entitled to DLA too. But its always worth having a label in school even if you don't get a statement now. Means teachers wont put things down to 'bad behaviour'

Claw3 - there is a really big difference between having and IEP and a statement.
The way the system is designed to work, once you get into school, is called a graduated approach. (of course this does not apply to everyone and many children come to school with a statement already in place)
Many children get scooped up onto School action in the early years, as there are many early interventions running in school. These children are usually given small group help, they often don't need it for long and they then catch up and come off SA. Others may then continue to struggle and the school may need to put a more formal type of help in place, they may also ask for outside help from others like SALT, OT or the EP, at this point your child would then be on SA+.
If the child continues to struggle and the school is unable to give the level of support that is needed for the child, they or you, would then request an assessment for a statement from the LEA.
Of course this does not always work, but that is how it is meant to work and if you were to go to your LEA and request a statement the first thing they would ask is what intervention have you had so far, what has the school provided and tried, so if you have not yet had any help it would be difficult to say that the school would not be able to help you.
But in reply to your conversation with the SENCO, she does not yet know what your childs needs are, and even if there have been budget cuts your child still has a right to have his needs met, so she shouldn't really be saying that you won't get a IEP.

isgreen - You know your stuff, thats what the SENCO said, he is a SA+, as he receives outside help.

She didnt actually say my son wouldnt receive a IEP in so many words, as you say she doesnt know what his exact needs are yet. But she did tell me, based on the information that she has received from the OT and myself, she could say that a child like my son, probably wouldnt be eligable.

As you say i would be better off waiting until he starts school, its all if's and but's at the mo. Its been interesting finding out a bit more anyhow

claw3- well at least something can come out of the battles that one has to go through to get your children help - you can pass on whatever you know to others.
Anyway it sounds like you are ahead of the game and are trying to find out as much as you can. Good luck it is tricky and like you say you need all his needs to be supported, his SN and his G&T.
I would also agree with NMC about pushing for a DX, as you may wish or be able to provide help yourself and you need to know where to spend your money if you can go down that route.

Another stupid question,checked the acronym, not there DX = diagnosis?(just to be sure)

yes

needmorecoffee wrote:

" Its not a disadvantage however you try and paint it or a barrier to independant life. Unless a G&T child does have a SN like cerebral palsy or aspergers or ADHD, they will lead a typical life and will not face monumental obstacles every single day.
Why can't people accept that non-SN is good enough and stop making cleverness out to be 'special'. "

This raises a key point: What is the purpose of school?

If the main purpose of school is to prepare children to lead at least a minimally independent life, then needmorecoffee is right, and no additional funding should be spent on specialised measures for a group who who could reach the minimum without it.

If, on the other hand, the purpose of school is to provide an education suited to giving each child the opportunity to approach their own potential, then we must admit that not all children will find it equally easy to do that with only the standard fayre.

Some people who are naturally gifted at sports will be sent on to practice with the county under-18s squad. Some with a magical voice will sing in choir competitions, and be provided with national level opportunities. These are people who need those special opportunities to get anywhere near their potential, because their potential is so high.

The same happens academically. Somewhere out there in the school system is the boy or girl who in ten years time will represent Britain in the International Maths Olympiad. There are future doctors who get into a top university studying medicine at the age of 16. IF they receive special support from the schooling system, to let them reach that potential.

Does everyone have the potential to be truely great at something? I don't know. But the fact is, not areas are equally valued by society. If you have the potential to be the world's greatest chewing gum bubble blower, good for you. But the country is not going to spend money on supporting you in that quest, if it doesn't bring in tax or credibility.

I've seen the 10% figure bandied about. I don't know, personally, what part of the normal distribution bell curve someone would need to be in before they will fall more than 50% below would they could other wise have achieved, if they don't get special help. But I see no purpose in denying that at least SOME pupils do have the sort of fantastically high potential which just is not catered for by standard lessons.