Aren't ALL children gifted and talented in something?

[pamelat]

Sorry I am new to this topic area but had a quick flick through and may not have done the topic justice, its just that I feel that all children/people are gifted or talented.

Take my DD, 10 months and only just learning to crawl (lazy monkey) and only doing commando style crawling BUT I am so proud that in my opinion she is so talented! She may as well be the first baby to ever crawl for how proud I am of her!!

I think that parents, friends, relatives and even schools are bias.

Who can really say whether anyone is of superior intellect or not?

At school my parents were always told that I was G&T (oh I quite fancy a gin and tonic!) but really I am very average but just went to a poor school. I was only G&T compared to the other students there. This came as a bit of a shock to me in the big wide world of work!

I am sure that there are the few exceptional cases of child genius, but I think that we all have the "right" to consider our little angels or terrors are exceptionally talented.

Thanks Kewcumber - you are of course quite right (and here was me trying to be profound) .

I've not read the whole thread but i agree with 2shoes that G&T is not the same as SN - SEN maybe but not SN. My ds has AS and ADHD and this causes him and us daily difficulties and eman he needs lots of support at school. He is also on the G&T register and whilst i'm pleased that he's bright the G&T stuff is nothing compared to his SN - his social difficulties are to do with his SN and not the G&T.

Mabanna - Im probably a bit naive about school, as i said little un hasnt started yet!

It was my understanding from when my older boys went to primary school (a long time ago i might add), that children were placed into ability groups, the higher ability groups being given the least help. My son for example would probably need help to stay focussed due to background noise, being touched, having to work in a group of any sort, he would withdraw etc.

Was wondering how the school would cope if he was in a higher ability group, without supervison. Do they have more than one TA in each classroom?

Claw said 'Needmorecoffee - As i said ive been doing a lot of reading, both about SN and G&T, i dont have a reference to hand about G&T nor SN, i probably have something bookmarked about research which i can dig out if you like.

Have you done any reading or do you have any experience of what a G&T kids needs might be, other than they are smart arses and dont need any help?'

I have 3 exceptionally bright children that would be classed at G&T if home educators did that sort of thing so yes, I have experience. Its why I removed them from school.

And please don't use the word 'dumb' when describing a non-verabl disabled person. sheesh.

If your boy has an SN, Claw, he will either be given a statement or an IEP (individual education plan) which will specify his particular need of support. This support can be given equally well regardless of whether he happens to be sitting at the top table or the bottom table.

A child who is gifted without any SPD (and you yourself showed that that is by far the majority of gifted children) clearly will not need support for this, so won't be getting any. Doesn't mean your ds can't.

cory most schools dont have the funding for statements. it is unlikely that they will statement a child that is achieving! you obviously have not fought for a statement because you would be aware of the procedures , how long it takes etc, etc............every pupil has an ILP but that doesn't mean that they will recieve specific extra measures necessary to their s.n

needmorecofee it isn't the labelled g & t at school that are smart arses actually. They are the ones usually least likely to discuss topics, interact with each other and be smart in attitude. The labelled g & t work more in robot mode, too scared to make mistakes. The lower achievers not labelled in school as g & t are the smart arses who take chances ask questions, etc and are very creative. My experience is with secondary school age though. I am anti labelling any way. We can be aware of a pupils ability and needs without labelling.It is not necessary.

High achieving pupils can have statements. A boy in my top set who is predicted pretty much all A*s has a statement becasue he is autistic and needs support in lessons. Not in accessing the work as such, but support in a classroom environment.

A high-achieving dyslexic child would be unlikely to get a statement because they would be perceived as being able to access the curriculum with differentiated work. IME anyway.

And to answer the OP I dont think all children are gifted or talented. And there's nothng wrong with that.

statements bring money into the school from the LEA. I know dd's statement and dd bring a bucket load. To be spent on dd. She gets an LSA and equipment.
The school pay nothing.

you are very lucky then maybe it is where you live. Where we live it is something that has to be really worked hard at to get. I live in an area where a lot of children would benefit from a statement. If your child is achieving good results without one then you wouldn't get one basically. I know we don't have the funding for everybody.

lijaco on Mon 24-Nov-08 19:05:48
"cory most schools dont have the funding for statements. it is unlikely that they will statement a child that is achieving! you obviously have not fought for a statement because you would be aware of the procedures , how long it takes etc, etc............every pupil has an ILP but that doesn't mean that they will recieve specific extra measures necessary to their s.n"

Errr...actually I have. And got turned down because dd only has a physical disability which our LEA does not do statements for. She did however get an action plan and her brother is on the SEN register (though without a statement). He is getting support though, which is the main thing.

IME it is possible for a child with SN to get support even though they are achieving.

Dd, who has always been in top set, did get support for her SN in the end despite the lack of funding (we were making noises about sueing the school for discrimination ). The school contains several autistic children; as far as I know they are not all achieving badly academically, but they are getting support according to their needs.

Surely,as NMC says, it is not the school that provides the funding for a statemented child, but the LEA? So not down to the financial state of the individual school.

thefallenmadonna I think all children have something that they are capable of excelling in, if given the opportunity,time and interest. That is what helps a child become gifted or talented.

Needmorecoffee - in our LEA, statements under 20 hours per week do not bring in any additional funding.

I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to get a statement for anything over 20 hours - it's almost impossible

lijaco on Mon 24-Nov-08 19:34:04
"you are very lucky then maybe it is where you live."

No, the point NCM is making is that the statement funding does not come from the school but from the LEA. So provided the school/parents are pushing hard enough for the statementing, that is all they have to do; after that, it is up to the LEA.

cory you err have what? Don't understand what youare saying?

The boy I'm referring to would probably not achieve good results without a statement. In fact, he would be very unlikely to be in school at all. He needs his TA. He is exceptionally able, but he would find it very difficult to function in a classroom on his own. I was simply making the point that ability itself is not a discriminator.

I'm going to have to disagree on the excelling thing too really. Or perhaps we just disagree on what excelling means.

And that is true about statements and funding. The school has to find a lot of money for SEN.

cory I pushed very hard for my son from the age of four. We pushed every step did everything and no we didn't get the much needed help for our son. The funding was not available to us from the LEA. They identified him as dyspraxic he had an ILP but it did not help him at all. I pushed very hard until he left school. You are very lucky to get a statement at our school they were like gold dust.

so obviously corie it IS NOT ALL YOU HAVE TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lijaco on Mon 24-Nov-08 19:43:01
"cory you err have what? Don't understand what youare saying?"

This was the part of your statement I was responding to:

"you obviously have not fought for a statement because you would be aware of the procedures , how long it takes etc, etc"

And the answer is that I have fought and I have been turned down and dd will never get a statement.

But this is not the same as saying that no other child can ever get a statement. I know there are statemented children in the school. I have friends in another school but same LEA who have fought and been successful because their child (autistic but not academically underachieving) was thought to fit the statementing criteria better than my dd.

Dd did however get help without a statement, because I was able to show that leaving her without help would amount to discrimination according to the Disability Discrimination Act and I made it clear that I would be quite happy to take the school to court on this one. As I would have done if they hadn't got themselves sorted.

I guess we are 'lucky'. But then dd couldn't attend school without a statement. She has full body cerebral palsy and cannot move a single limb or speak and is partially blind. She is reliant on an adult for every single thing.

But, having read the latest Govt policies, they are thinking of abandoning statements and relying on schools to 'do the right thing'. Money will be given to the school direct but not ring fenced for disabled children. So I guess dd's future involves being pushed into a corner in her wheelchair and left there.

Needmorecoffee - Im not a great believer in political correctness, i referred to my OWN brother as deaf, dumb and brain damaged, in my day dumb meant unable to speak. I dont see why that would cause you any offence, especially as i was referring to my own brother, im sure you understood that i was not being derogatory.

Im trying to have a discussion and maybe learn a few things along the way, do you really have to be petty, you will correcting my spelling next!

Cory - Thanks for answering my question, there has been no mention of a statement or an IEP. Obviously i will be speaking to the SENCO at the school and will be asking what their plans are. Thanks for the info.

Lijaco - What you said is really interesting, so you think if he is labelled as G&T, he wont get any help with his SN?