Finding peers and support for a highly mathematically gifted nine-year-old

[bluebellnoodle]

DS is 9 and is profoundly mathematically gifted - many years ahead of his peers. Gifted in other areas too but the gap for maths is the biggest, at least 7 years. He attends our local state school in London. Until now he has been largely bored with mainstream academics but happy as he has good friends. Now it seems he also needs a community of other children who are of a similar age and ability as he is starting to feel isolated and disillusioned by the maths teaching (or lack of). I am trying to find a suitable teacher for him, which is not easy, because it's hard to know what the curriculum should look like. In the meantime he would love to chat maths (and other topics of course) with children who are like him. Would love to hear from any parents with children who are similar who would like to have a playdate! Or any helpful advice on how to navigate the above, based on personal experiences? Thank you so much.

With football, there are ways to challenge yourself, e.g. by shooting further out from the goal than strictly necessary, or attempting to steal the ball in a disadvantageous position.

A better analogy would be an ABRSM 8 piano player being taught hot cross buns and only being allowed to practice hot cross buns.

So he took the AS maths exam in year 9? When did he take the full A level maths exam and when did he take the A level FM exam?

My understanding is that Oxbridge doesn't mind early A level maths, but students are expected to take 3 simultaneous A levels in year 13 to include FM. Did he also follow this pattern?

Is it worth reaching out on your local FB page or something and asking if any local A level or University students would be able to tutor your son? We pay a local 6th former £15 an hour to tutor our Yr9 son. In our case it’s a different approach as our son needs support rather than being stretched but it might be a relatively cheap way for you to open up the next stage of maths for your son and, whilst he might not want to be in a big group of older children, 1:1 might be different.

Fair point re the football, and absolutely that re the music. There’s no expectation to not do hot cross buns with the rest of the class, or to complain it’s boring because you’re so far ahead. You just get on with it, and look forward to your outside of school class to enjoy your piano. Superiority seems to be limited to maths, not necessarily the op, but widespread in the uk.

I have a very good relationship with DS and we talk about what he needs and what we think he needs on a regular basis, which I'm grateful for.

Let's use this analogy, how do you think a child who is grade 8 piano would cope with being made to play at grade 1 or 2, every day for years on end?

Or how would you feel being taught the alphabet and phonics as an adult every day when you can read quite perfectly, with barely an end in sight to it and everyone else is learning the basics. Would you be ok with that? Do you not think that would negatively affect your mental health and make you feel beyond frustrated and lonely?

Here are some online programs:
EMF mathematics is a mathematically rigorous program that teaches secondary school math from an advanced, abstract perspective. Their first module is free to try.
Mathacademy is an adaptive math platform that focuses on acceleration with standard rigor (including university level topics like multivariable calculus) rather than competition-level depth.

Neither of these include live instruction from a human. If you want that, options get more expensive.

https://mrmathonline.com/ - they have several programs for a few hundred per year, which is relatively affordable for live classss.
https://mathcircle.spcs.stanford.edu/ and https://www.theglobalmathcircle.org/ are online math circles but are quite expensive
https://virtual.aopsacademy.org/ - comprehensive and expensive year-long classes
https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/schedule - these are cheaper but the live component is text based; students can type but not speak. https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/how-school-works
https://www.mathschool.com/programs/competition - RSM provides after school math at the supplementary and enrichment levels, but for your son I would only consider the Math Competition Program. Not sure about the price but it's likely around £1400 or $1800 per year.

If you want live interaction at a cheaper price, another option is to look at companies from India that teach in English. Some examples are Cheenta, Ramanujan school of math, and Vedantu Online School.

Ha, ok I just saw Muu9's post after I posted mine.

Thanks - there is no superiority from my end - just the hope that I can help DS navigate this difficult period of his life. Having this gift might seem like yay bragging rights to most people but actually it's making him quite miserable, to the point he wishes he didn't have it. As a parent it is really hard to see that he wants to reject himself. He can't help but see the world in maths - that was apparent even from the age of 2. So that's why I made the post, to see what others in a similar position have done and what worked, what didn't, is there anyone else out there who wants to form a community so these kids have each other and can make their lives feel a bit less lonely.

I know, there are genuinely tonnes of people who are maths-pushy for their kids. I get accused of that all the time. I actually really dislike this for kids who are made to do well at maths. Thankfully I am not that person!

I am beyond grateful for the time and effort you have made to highlight these resources. Thank you so much

There’s a fair amount of research out there that being a bit bored sometimes is actually good for children. It isn’t the end of the world that for an hour a day max, he finds something a bit easy. I’m sure he’s allowed to get on with something else once he’s finished. I would reframe this to enjoy knowing I’m good at maths, chill a bit in the lesson, accept and understand that one teacher teaching a range of standards, will not be able to accommodate my sole wants at all times. In the same way another pupil might be learning that he has to pass a ball to your son a bit softer than he’s capable of - or whatever. It’s a good chance for him to learn that it’s not just about him. And then use all the wonderful ideas you’ve been given on this thread outside of school. I’m at the other end of this a bit, we’re seeing a generation of kids who have been given exactly what they want and is best for them and the exact second that they want it; and it hasn’t worked.

There is ‘being a bit easy’ and there is ‘grinding through basics at snail’s pace that you understood without effort years ago and that your peers don’t get and may never get’. I think the particular misery of the latter is not positive.

Don’t be afraid to talk to the school. Ds’s primary school found a retired maths professor to run a small stretch group in maths for 6 kids in his class for a couple of years.

The school is flexible but there is nobody to teach so I’m trying to find someone privately.

We’re not talking about regular boredom, we’re talking about despair.

Ok so the phonics example clearly didn’t help to illustrate my point.

If a child lay at the other end of the bell curve and there were no suitable teachers or assistance to access a curriculum and their mental health was struggling, would that be ok? Would your advice be the same to just let them struggle on?

I’m not trying to get at you @bluebellnoodle. I’m saying it might help your son to find some perspective. You have used very strong language to describe this. I think you should explore every possible avenue outside of school to allow him to flourish, but in school help him understand that he can’t change what he is being taught - there are probably things he can do independently instead, but that’s the best he can hope for - so it’s best to not get so down about it.

University of Waterloo has some great math challenges and programs.
more lateral thinking based which my son loved.

He took AS in Y9 for fun (but supported by the Maths dep - it was one of the last presentations of the legacy AS) but took GCSE and A levels (he took 4 including FM) at the correct time.
Yes, you are absolutely correct, University Maths departments don't like early entries. As he got older he was able to access online Maths lectures from Oxford Uni and he did courses from Brilliant.org as well as the Maths challenges and Olympiads (can I just have a proud moment and say he got a solution published in the Senior Olympiad Round 2)

I believe you've mentioned that so far he has been self-teaching. Can you explain how he goes about it (e.g. what resources he uses for self teaching)?

How tolerant would his school/teacher be of him bringing in his own material to work on during maths class?

https://artofproblemsolving.com/community is a pretty active forum of secondary students discussing competition math. While in person groups through a math camp or math circle would be ideal, if he really feels isolated, it may help him realize that he isn't weird or alone.

I would like to re-emphasize that the UKMT mentoring scheme can be done at school or via a UKMT mentor depending on the level of the program, and the requirement to be at least in year 8 seems to only apply to the latter, so it would be worth asking for access to the Archimedes level sheets

Also, if he's starting year 5, then the 1729 math camp will take place next year, so I would mark your calendar to check the website around 6 months from now. It seems to be the only maths camp in the UK I could find for students that young.

Have you considered applying to other schools for year 6?

We have done this with my daughter for several subjects, she has an Oxbridge student practice French with her (Year 6 and self taught). My husband won a maths Olympiad and does maths with both children.
Otherwise, chess. It's something where he's likely to meet other bright children.
Also piano. DD plays four instruments to a high level. Not sure if it's necessarily helped with maths but she enjoys it and its good for her mental health and a way she can express herself through composition as well as simply playing.

Hi, he likes to read books - started with murderous maths then moved on to puzzle books. He has looked at some textbooks but finds that boring. He has done a LOT of UKMT and at school, GCSE type worksheets. Sometimes he gets feedback on the reasoning and sometimes not. He does ask my DD questions from time to time and also until recently has seen someone for an hour a week.

Luckily his school has been very flexible with what he can work on - it's just not taught. They don't have the time or resources. So although we are so grateful that they'll allow even that, it's still not taught. I did ask if they'd allow teaching videos but they haven't been so keen on that.

The private primary schools I have approached have been very strict with what they allow pupils to learn during school hours (we couldn't afford anyway) so that was not going to be an option.

1729 is on my radar but I did not see that about the camp - that looks great thanks. Will also check out the forum. Thanks a million!

No not schools for year 6 as they are all private and DS is very socially happy where he is.

What does he find boring about the textbooks? Is it the way they're written, os the level of the material, or the fact that they're mostly just text?

From what you've shared, it seems a good idea would be to learn material through online classes or in person ones (londonsmp) and then practice it in class.

Also the UKMT papers have solutions so he should be able to get feedback himself (or you can provide it for him), and the solutions and investigations for the IMC papers also give extra practice which helps with learning: https://ukmt.org.uk/competition-papers/jsf/jet-engine:free-past-papers/tax/challenge-type:70/

And of course, there's always AI, but I won't open that can of worms

Sorry if others have already suggested this but MIT offer thousands of course materials free online: https://openlearning.mit.edu/courses-programs/mit-opencourseware

Re: the textbooks I think it's just the walls of text. That said, he got given a GCSE textbook at school today and he actually seemed a bit excited about it, so maybe it's not all textbooks after all.

I've approached someone today for online tutoring - keeping my fingers crossed.

Thank you so much for the amazing information and support given by so many of you. Apologies that I've not been able to reply to every message x

My DS went to 1729 camp this summer. Feel free to pm me if you’d like any info about it.

He’s obviously very talented at maths, but by the sounds of it not in the same league as your son.

However, he had an absolute nightmare at school last year being bored silly in maths. Extension work was endless questions on exactly the same stuff as main class work. So you have my sympathies there as it’s really impacted him.

No one has suggested this yet, but MIT OCW starts from calculus, and at a more challenging level than A level calculus, so OP's kid would not be ready in my opinion.

Let us know how it goes!

Yeah this is a really good point actually

And also that Kings College specialist maths state school that takes super talented kids