can my gifted son go to school earlier (late birthday)?

[nybom]

my son's birthday is at the end of september which means he'll go to school at the age of five and will be one of the oldest of his year...

my son is very sociable, his social skills are highly developed, and he's very independent for his age (he's never had a problem with unfamiliar people or places, doesn't need any time whatsoever to adjust to new situations). he LOVES going to nursery 3 whole days a week (since aged 6 months), he'd love to to go to EVERY day, asks me each morning if he can go... basically he is bored at home, wants constant intellectual stimulation as well as other children around him. my son shows several signs of giftedness, e. g. he can spell 6 letter words since the age of two. many people (psychologists, nursery nurses, gps etc.) have remarked on his intelligence though we haven't actually had it tested yet.

my husband and i both have an IQ of 140, and i remember when i was a child i was so bored at home, so my mum had to teach me to read and write at the age of three. i wished i had had the opportunity to go to school earlier then...

can i have my son's intelligence/suitability for school assessed so he might be able to go to school a year earlier?

it's not that i want to push him into something, make a genius out of him or anything like that, if he's really not suitable that's fine with me! but i feel strongly that it is wrong if he goes to school so late, that he's ready now... does anyone know if there's anything i can do/how to procede?

thanks, nicky

[LittleMyDancing]

"Otherwise, they'd be overrun with parents who all wanted their children to do an extra year at school- because it's an awful lot cheaper and many families on low incomes are financially stretched"

In fact this is exactly what happened in France. Children can start school in France from 3, but it's not compulsory until age 6.

But of course everyone sends their child at three because it's free childcare and also because they're terrified their child will be 'behind' if they start later.

so now all 3 yos go to school - including my niece, who hates it, is terrified of the canteen, and has to come home for lunch with Mummy because she's too little to be away from home all that time.

makes you wonder, don't it.

[Dottoressa]

LittleMyDancing - it does indeed. I can't help but think that our children are going to pay a heavy price for our rush to get them into schools as early as possible (or, in the case of my local authority, to make them start when they're only just four or else they won't get in to the school of their choice...)

Nybom - I don't believe school is a terrible place that little ones should be kept away from as long as possible; and I do believe that many, many children can't wait to get there and are very happy once they're there. But what I question is why it has to be so early? And if a child of three is allegedly desperate to go to school, I wonder why?

Given enough stimulation and playtime (and being-bored-time) at home and at nursery, I'd have thought a child wouldn't be clamouring to go to school. Now, if it's not possible for you to have him at home, that's an entirely different matter - but then he would be starting school early because you need him to, not because it would benefit him in any way.

As to his being tall: well, I'm not sure that's terribly relevant. Bear in mind that the other children will be reaching puberty before your son, should you put him up a year - and he may then be out of his depth.

Regarding very clever children: I have found that my ds has always managed to occupy himself marvellously - with Lego, drawing, and now reading (technical tomes aimed at an adult audience. Sigh). I don't feel he'd have gained anything much by starting school until he was five. His social skills were a bit iffy at first, but he's caught up now!

I would also question your assumption that you don't need to read to your DS because he can read to himself. In my experience, there's always a place for reading to a child - even to one who can read pretty much anything that's put in front of him!

[TheFallenMadonna]

Read him lots of stories nybom

And by physically immature, I didn't mean things like walking. Ds crawled at 5 months and walked at 10. He is very strong and agile. BUT the physical coordination that is important in writing is not there for him. And I understand that this is not unusual in young boys.

[msappropriate]

I have only read half of the posts but I see you have dismissed the 5 days a week state nursery. I have several friends who changed their 3 yr old children from a private all day nursery to a 5 x 2.5hr sessions state one attached to a primary school. Have you got one attached to a primary school where you live? I know it is more inconvenient only having 2.5 hrs with a young baby and only possible if you are working if you have a child minder or au pair. But I think 2.5 hours day of more high quality play is better than very long day if you have a choice. Also if it a nursery attached to a school they would quickly pick up on his talents and give work for him accordingly.

[msappropriate]

have read all the thread now. How the heck do you know hes the most poular child at his nursery? Do they have a prize? Do they tell the parents of the least popular too?

[LittleMyDancing]

at msappropriate

[anneme]

Littlemydancing - interesting what you say about french education. We all tend to look to other countries and the fact that they start school at 6 or 7 and assume that we are being odd here - but, in fact, the situation is, as you say, somewhat different.
DS1 (5 in Sept) is very verbally adept. Many people think he is therefore very bright. He might be or it might just be that he can express himself well at present - time will tell.....
Oh, and the person who was worrying about an August baby - at the school I teach at we have had a number of Oxbridge pupils who are v young for their year (just an example) - being young does not equal losing out.

[M1SSUNDERSTOOD]

Have read the whole thread with great interest as my DS1 in exactly same situation. He is March birthday which in Scotland means you start a year later at 5 and a half. He had an assessment and unsurprisingly didn't get in early. Now I look back and wonder what I was thinking as he due to start in August and is more than ready now.

[Clary]

A bit annoyed at nybom's post about "not so unfortunate birthdays" ie June/July. as a mother of an apparently very fortunate child then, may I say I wish he was less lucky with his b/day and now finishign year 3 with ease rather than yr 4 with some struggle.

As many others have said, the Sept-born child by and large is at an advantage in the English school system.

Your DS sounds lovely and certainly very able. But I don't know how you could reasonably expect a school to find him a place in Sept (!?) just because, ahem, he wants it. My DD would like to go to Disneyland but I'm not taking her!

How sad that you rarely read him a story...

[Clary]

I meant to add that you needn't worry IME about the peer group thing (ie yr DS's pals starting school before him).

This happens a lot of course, children don't realise that their pal who is a few weeks older than them is a whole school year ahead.

But IME as I say they quickly make new friends in their actual peer group. One of DS2's best pals at school was most friendly with children in the year above before they left his nursery (he is Sept b/day too), but he has loads of pals in his class now.

Plus it is quite handy to have friends in older years - one of DS2's best friends from toddlers is actually Sept born and starts this autumn, so I hope they will be pals and DS2 be a big helper to him.

[Desiderata]

Oh dear, nybom. I'm sorry, but your posts really are quite irritating, on a number of levels.

Look, do what you think fit. Send him to NASA.

I can't think of anything more constructive to say, beyond the old chestnut ... that being, would you just let the poor boy be a kid?

[islandofsodor]

On another board I use there is currently a thread from a young girl moaning about things she is not allowed to do because she is not yet 16 but is in her first year of college. She skipped Year 2 apparently and has just completed her GCSE's a year early.

Suppose she had decided not to go on to college, legally she would have had to repeat Year 10, she couldn't have left school now as some of her friends are doing.

You have to consider this as well.

[singersgirl]

I think Nybom has already said that she's not going to pursue sending him early. She's never mentioned NASA.

I have fairly bright late August children and I'm glad they weren't born in September. Just because it is statistically advantageous for children to be older in the year doesn't mean that individual younger children don't do well. Even with the disadvantages that being younger brings (relative immaturity, writing difficulties, concentration difficulties), I'm pleased that DS2 was born 4 hours before the end of his school year. I don't think he's going to fail in life. He's socially well adjusted, near the top of his class, bright as a button.

Nybom knows her own son. I think her question was quite reasonable and I think some posters have been unduly harsh.

[Desiderata]

Yes, we are unduly harsh on this site.

It's what we're good at, you see.

[singersgirl]

[Goes to bed]

[expatinscotland]

Another example of a poster who starts a thread having already made a decision, then gets bent out of shape when people disagree.

[Clary]

singerss girl that's a fair point. My thign about Sept born doing well was of course a general point - and nybom is talking about a particualr child here (as are you and of course as was I).

Sorry I got a bit annoyed. And yes, I saw she's not going to send him in Sept now (not sure quite how she was going to anyway...)

I'm glad that you're happy with how yr DS is doing, but the thing is on MN and in RL too, I know more people unhappy about their summer-born being too young than about their sept-born being too old for school.

So I think that's why some people have been a tad sharp - tho not unhelpful imo.

[jabberwocky]

I have not read entire thread so apologize if repeating anything. We have a similar situation but are in the US so I don't know how much will apply. We had ds1 tested just after he turned 4 - that is the earliest that children can be scored and still some of the tests will only score for age 6. We shared the results with his teacher who then arranged for him to do math with the kindergarteners (5 year olds) and reading with the 1st grade (age 6). He still had a "base class" IYKWIM with the other 4 year old children and this worked out extremely well. This was at a private school.

This summer he has gone to camp at the local children's science museum with the 6 - 9 year olds and has been cleared to do one of the camps offered to 8 - 12 year olds. He has really enjoyed it; in fact I have rarely seen him so excited.

I have spoken with the principal at the public school he will be attending in the fall. They will evaluate him to see if the same approach (different age-group classes for different subjects) will work or if we do indeed need to think about skipping a grade or two. We are well aware of the problems that might entail but have decided to take it one step at a time and hopefully make the best decision for him. The problem with kids like this is that they really don't "fit" with any one group. The principal stated it thusly, "As an adult he will find his niche but it is much more difficult in a school environment."

[cory]

Jaberwocky, this sounds really nice for your ds.

The OP's problem is slightly different though: she wants her ds to start school a year before the UK set age because she cannot afford to pay fulltime childcare and is too busy to entertain him at home.

She specifically states that her ds gets on well with the children in his age group and loves nursery, so it is not a question of him not fitting in. Her problem is that she cannot afford fulltime nursery and does not have time to stimulate him sufficiently at home. To me, this is not about the child's specific needs, but about the needs of the mother.

My experience of the UK system suggests that the education authorities will look on this with a jaundiced eye. Before the school start the UK authorities only provide a few hours of free nursery: beyond that parents are expected to either pay for the rest or stimulate their children themselves.

[Anna8888]

LittleMyDancing - you paint a slightly warped situation of the pre-school (école maternelle) situation in France.

Three year olds in petite section quite commonly do half-days at school or come home for lunch in the middle of the day. While it is most unusual for three year olds not to attend pre-school at all, there is rarely any issue with them attending for mornings only and having days off at the drop of a hat for illness etc.

My daughter has just finished petite section and she has learnt many useful things, as have the two other three year olds living in our apartment block in Paris (who attend a different school to my daughter).

[Anna8888]

warped picture

[shrinkingsagpuss]

Re- moving up a year.

I was moved up a year at the age of 9. It was a socail disaster, but the best ever educational decision. In hinsight, and my parents agree, it should have happened much earlier.

Teacher friends are recommending my DS should go up a year, but to do reception year fisrt, to learn about "being at school".

Wioth all the emphasis on G&T nowadays you may find he doesn't need to move up a year.

As for now....I have the same trouble. DS is 3.5, and driving me mad he wants to learn so much, but it is fun!!

[Anna8888]

My sister (December birthday) did her whole school career a year ahead and it was totally uneventful for her. Though her gap year was a pain as she wasn't yet 18 which made it difficult to live independently.

I started off by being a year ahead but dropped back into my normal year when I moved schools in the middle of primary.

My partner was a year ahead until age 15, when he repeated the year (French system). He thinks he should never have been pushed ahead.

My best French friend was two years ahead, and left school at 16 (she is extraordinarly clever) and did brilliant university studies. She is quite determined not to do this to her children and has worked very hard at broadening the life experiences of her children rather than accelerating their school careers.

[BosworthBear]

Do any local private schools have a pre school class? These tend to be run on more of a school basis rather than a nursery basis, smaller numbers, classroom assistant, early learning goals etc.. but with emphasis still on learning through play with some more formal teaching around numbers, letters and early reading. You can still do either full time or less and you can use your government childcare assistance to pay the fees in the same way as nursery fees. Realise that this would still mean changing his actual school when he eventually starts but despite this, I do have experience of this working well for children who are growing out of nursery but can't go to school yet.

[cory]

Do you people actually read the OP? She said specifically that her son is not bored at nursery, that he would love to go there every day, but that she cannot afford it. Her problem is that her son is bored at home on the days when she can not afford to have him in a nursery setting. So where is the point of suggesting more places that you have to pay for? That was the problem in the first place.