can my gifted son go to school earlier (late birthday)?

[nybom]

my son's birthday is at the end of september which means he'll go to school at the age of five and will be one of the oldest of his year...

my son is very sociable, his social skills are highly developed, and he's very independent for his age (he's never had a problem with unfamiliar people or places, doesn't need any time whatsoever to adjust to new situations). he LOVES going to nursery 3 whole days a week (since aged 6 months), he'd love to to go to EVERY day, asks me each morning if he can go... basically he is bored at home, wants constant intellectual stimulation as well as other children around him. my son shows several signs of giftedness, e. g. he can spell 6 letter words since the age of two. many people (psychologists, nursery nurses, gps etc.) have remarked on his intelligence though we haven't actually had it tested yet.

my husband and i both have an IQ of 140, and i remember when i was a child i was so bored at home, so my mum had to teach me to read and write at the age of three. i wished i had had the opportunity to go to school earlier then...

can i have my son's intelligence/suitability for school assessed so he might be able to go to school a year earlier?

it's not that i want to push him into something, make a genius out of him or anything like that, if he's really not suitable that's fine with me! but i feel strongly that it is wrong if he goes to school so late, that he's ready now... does anyone know if there's anything i can do/how to procede?

thanks, nicky

[HonoriaGlossop]

martianbishop said it all

"look for breadth of stimulation rather than simply acceleration"

(may be misquoting slighty it's on the last page )

But nicky, if you make that your mantra with your boy you will be doing him a huge, huge kindness in life. You simply cannot go wrong with that approach; in terms of his holistic development as a person.

I agree that any child may be lightly bored with a mum who works, and has a new baby, and is doing a PHD. You must be exhausted, nicky! Is this the right time to pursue all this? Will the PHD wait while your children are tiny and are taking alot of input?

I think the fact you're thinking so hard of school for a THREE year old is mainly a sign that you want some of this level of expectation on you to 'go away'

Rather than making that your 3 yr old 'going away' why not the PHD?

[expatinscotland]

You learn some very valuable skills through play. Even as adults.

And that seems to be the greatest lesson that's been lost when it comes to how we are bringing up this generation's children.

[Desiderata]

Aaaggghh!

If you're that clever, woman, would you at least apply the rules of grammar?

Anyhow, put him up a year, stress him out a year, do what you want. You're very, very, very, very, very, very, clever.

Ad Nauseum.

As a small aside, however, children who get moved up a year are always bullied; mostly mercilessly.

It seems to me that you are denying all responsibility for stimulating your own child. The world is full of books, and things to do. These things are rarely, effectively learned within the confines of the school building.

[Weegiemum]

My older 2 kids are both classed a G&T in Maths.

Both started school (we are in Scotland) at 5y6m and I have never regretted it for a moment. In fact, dd2 has to start this August at 4y9m and I am fighting the fact the I feel it is too young!!! And all of my kids are highly challenged in bilingual Gaelic/English Education.

I am exceedingly glad I kept dd1 and ds to over 5. They benefitted hugely from the extra year in nursery and have truly blossomed at school - both are 2nd oldest in their class and I feel this has been a real benefit.

There are so many things you can do at home to stimulate a bright 4 yo.... we did load of art, music, learned chess (really ! ... dh was in his grammar school chess team and now dd1 (8) can often beat him), other languages (we speak a good deal of Spanish at home, even though it is no-ones native language), trips, kitchen science ..... if you put your mind to it, there are so many things you can do at home.

I appreciate it is hard with a new baby ( my children are 2 years apart then 22 months apart - I had a 3y10m, 1y10m and newborna t the same time - 3 under 4!) but there is so much that can be learned and absorbed from this alone. And what is wrong with you teaching him to read at age 3? I could read before I went to school - it kept me occupied and was a great step up in the classroom (as was my preternatural knitting ability!!).

I am glad my children were older when they went to school. I wanted it to be educational and fun, not just a childminder. I think a lot of people choose it or that reason (though I am not saying you are doing that)

[Blandmum]

WM, can I say how much I enjoyed your use of the word preternatural in 'as was my preternatural knitting ability!!'?

Wonderful

[Thankyouandgoodnight]

I haven't read the whole thread but how about sending him to a monetssori school / nursery until he's ready for school? It might be exactly the sort of environment that he would flourish in without losing any of the important 'learning through play' years.

[nybom]

aaaaaaaaaaargh, stop going on about my GRAMMAR - as i said, i am not a native speaker!!!

and i'd also wish i could give up one of my responsibilities but there's no way - it can't be the PHD thesis as this is almost finished (hopefully in another 2-3 months). i had hoped to finish it BEFORE DS2 was born but he decided to make an early appearance... (thus the extra stress at the moment).

[HonoriaGlossop]

nicky, has anything said here helped, though? It seems there is a majority who think that accelerating your child a year will do more harm than good...

It does seem clear to me that probably subconsciously you are wishing away the responsibility and hard work of your bright 3 year old. They're ALL incredibly hard work at 3 - extremely bright ones probably worse, ok, but they all take a hellofalot of input.
And as Hula said a while back, school does not help in as many ways as you think it will; in fact if he's truly gifted you might find it worse than him being at home, to be honest. (possibilities; bullying (specially if out of yeargroup) child not sufficiently extended, leading to disruptive behaviour and even a dislike for school v early)

Can you get some more help while you are going through this stressful point?

[nightingale452]

My little sister (who has an October birthday) was moved up a year as soon as she started school (this was 30 years ago) and she worked the whole way through primary and secondary school a year ahead. Although academically she coped fine, she struggled socially once she got to secondary school, although I'm only saying this with the benefit of hindsight, no one realised at the time. Teachers didn't realise she was younger and she feels they thought she was just immature. She didn't end up with particular great exam results. I was born in August and was always one of the youngest in my year, and I found school hard going too (although have since found I have an IQ of 159 - just thought I'd get that in ).

Anyway, my advice would be to leave him in his normal year group as you may be storing up problems for later by taking away his age advantage.

[cadelaide]

expat has it.

spot on.

[hackneybird]

My birthday is at the end of Aug.

I was moved up a year at school for being 'bright' and it was really difficult being the youngest. Personally I really disliked being the baby of the year. Academically I was absolutely fine and in all the top sets, but emotionally it was quite hard and when I was a teenager it was torture.

I wouldn't recommend it from personal exeperience, and will ensure my children stay in their correct years for this reason.

[hackneybird]

I just want to echo Desiderata's point about children being moved up getting bullied - yep, that happened to me too.

Unfortunately I went to one of those schools were it was deeply uncool to be bright. I have a really unusual name too so I stood out a lot, and got bullied mercilessly.

I think you need to consider all the other areas of life and education before you put your child into an advanced education system.

[WriggleJiggle]

Please don't put him in the wrong age group. I have seen this happen so many times and it almost never works.

As MB said, breadth to his 'curriculum' is the key here. Rather than sending him to school, send him to music lessons / art groups / sports clubs ....

[fruitstick]

Starting him with his peer group will be so much better for him in the long run.

I was born at the very end of August and always felt left out as I got older ...... last one to drive, last one to (legally) drink and went off to University a week after my 18th birthday which I found incredibly daunting. If he really should be a full school year younger than he will always feel like he doesn't really fit in.

I also think it puts undue pressure on him as he grows over, to be constantly singled out as clever and 'advanced' can have the opposite effect.

I would keep him in nursery for now, or maybe find some other groups he could join if he needs more stimulation.

[Stopfighting]

Lots of unhelpful, quite spiteful posts for some reason...

Go with you instinct. Chances are it will be spot on

[singersgirl]

I think it would be really difficult to move him up in the state system. I can see why you might want to, given that he is bright. After all, he is only a couple of weeks younger than some children who will be starting in September, so I think some posters may be making too much of the 'he is only 3' bit. He would not be massively younger than the year group at all.

DS2's birthday is end of August, and altogether there are 5 August and 3 July birthdays in his class. So a child a couple of weeks younger wouldn't feel at all out of place.

[cory]

KerryMum on Thu 26-Jun-08 20:17:11
'that would be nice tortoise but unfortunately in ds1's case yesterday they watched Home Alone 1 AND 2 and did a little game of rounders. That was their school day. Almost every day has been like that for last 2 months solid! There have been many complaints by parents. '

KerryMum, your problem is with a rotten teacher (and I don't blame you for being fed up). I would be equally fed up if the same happened to my ds who is at the bottom end of the competence range. Good teachers don't do this.

[tortoiseSHELL]

singersgirl - that's assuming the summer babies are ok starting when they do. When I started school, as an August child, there was staggered entry so that you started when you were at least 4.3. In ds1's class there are quite a few summer children - ds1 is June, and he found elements difficult - he is very bright, but the things he found hard were the fine motor skills necessary for writing, and also 'getting on with things' with little teacher input. I know some of the August boys in his class have REALLY struggled, and still in Y2 haven't really caught up. And the OP's boy would be younger STILL.

There are all sorts of implications for being in the wrong peer group - for example, in Y2 when they have SATs, he would be being compared with children who may be over a year older than him, and although he does sound bright in some areas, this doesn't necessarily mean that he will cope with everything required in KS1 (thinking of writing especially here, as an area where boys often struggle). And, like it or not, (and I really don't), the KS1 results will colour a teacher's perception of your child and may determine future ability sets in KS2. The OP has the opportunity to really enjoy her ds for the next academic year, and then he can really flourish at school, rather than playing catch up.

[madness]

OK, my brother and Istarted school a year early (although abroad where we started at 5y anyway), and few of my cousins have skipt classes (1 started medical school at 16 years). None of us have had any real problems with bullying, or "not fitting in".
But I don't really see the point of starting school 3 years old!! And I don't get it all this stuff about being able to read. So what, there is more to it than just reading in school. Dc love school because they can play with their friends, play with playmobile lego, do painting, singing etc.
But surelly you don't really need a school for these actvities???
BTW, neither my brother or me were able to read at 2 years old

[moogmum]

Haven't read whole thread but want to echo what others have said - there is overwhelming evidence that being the oldest in your year group rather than the youngest is one of the biggest advantages you can have. Moving children up a year is not generally good for them at all - and the effect of being the youngest in the year lasts on average until the age of 16 so it matters for a long time. I would move my August-born down a year if I possibly could so he could be one of the oldest instead of one of the youngest - no matter how bright.

[tortoiseSHELL]

nybom, if you're finding it hard to find activities for your ds with a 4 wk old and a PHD (and who wouldn't!), why not see if you can team up with another mum from nursery/playgroup, and do a swap - so you have her kid for 1 day (you could pick them both up from playgroup), and she could pick your ds up another day. It's often easier to entertain 2 than 1, they can stimulate each other, and your ds will inevitably do different things with them than he does with you.

[noddyholder]

No one should go to school earlier gifted or otherwise

[tortoiseSHELL]

I also think you should be careful not to label your child 'gifted' as doing so may inevitably lead to heightened expectations and disappointment in his achievements. And that would be a real shame.

[nybom]

honoriaglossop:

nicky, has anything said here helped, though? It seems there is a majority who think that accelerating your child a year will do more harm than good...

[...] And as Hula said a while back, school does not help in as many ways as you think it will; in fact if he's truly gifted you might find it worse than him being at home, to be honest. (possibilities; bullying (specially if out of yeargroup) child not sufficiently extended, leading to disruptive behaviour and even a dislike for school v early)>

yes, it has helped... the opinions were all very coherent, and many of you were affected themselves - that is pretty convincing...

it made me think it over and decide against trying to get him into school early...

but still, many of the reasons against putting him in school early have not convinced me/don't apply: for instance, the importance of staying with his peer group has been mentioned. actually his peer group at nursery (with not so "unfortunate" birthdays, many only 1 or 2 months older) will be going off to school and he won't. so if he was to stay with his peer group, he ought to go to school early!

and as for the danger being physically behind the older children - DS1 is tall for his age, and is very able, physically: he's been crawling up (and down!) the stairs since he was 6 months, he regularly somersaulted out of his crib at 10 months (and the bars were chin-high!) without hurting himself - he can climb anything, he is agile, quick, strong and has stamina (goes for up to 4-hour long walks).

now without wanting to sound like a show-off, but he seems ahead not only intellectually but also in all other aspects that make up his personality/body...

one final thing, about the aspect of being bullied: i doubt he will stand out, because he's NOT an academic type. he doesn't talk in an academic way and he doesn't look academic. to the other kids he just seems like a normal kid. also, he's the most popular kid at nursery, why should it change only because of his age? i mean, come on, we're not even talking about an age difference of a year! at nursery the age span is much bigger (0-2, and 2-5)...

i've remembered one more thing: i'd like to repeat my statement that, compared to other countries, the transition from nursery to primary school education is very smooth (i've worked at schools). in other countries nurseries have toys, there is unstructured play, no curriculum. when you join school there's only tables, books and the blackboard. oh, and there is only 1 teacher and 30 people in a class. and no differentiation between the various abilities of the pupils whatsoever...

Can you get some more help while you are going through this stressful point? <

i don't know... HV is of no help. and i don't have any relatives here. my friends all have 2 or more children themselves and work full-time...

[cory]

Stopfighting on Fri 27-Jun-08 14:24:09
'Lots of unhelpful, quite spiteful posts for some reason...

Go with you instinct. Chances are it will be spot on '

The problem is that the Local Admissions Authority are unlikely to pay much attention to the OP's instincts. They are in charge of a limited sum of money which has to be stretched to provide a given number of years of education for all local children. They are unlikely to be swayed into giving her ds an extra year at school by the OP's need to write her PhD in peace (admirable though it is). Particularly as the places for this September have been allocated long ago.

There are assisted nursery places for people on low incomes- it may be worth looking into that. Or a childminder. Or a university creche.

I do sympathise, having spent a lot of the last 11 years trying to write academic articles while looking after two children (and dd has chronic health problems so needs a lot of looking after). But frankly, that is my own problem, not the school's.

Having brought up two children with widely varying abilities, I would say it hasn't really seemed to me a case of difference in intelligence: 4-year-olds are demanding creatures, all of them. My average ds needed just as much attention as my G&T dd. And 4yos don't adjust their needs according to your situation IME. At least mine never showed any sympathy for Mummy's deadlines.