can my gifted son go to school earlier (late birthday)?

[nybom]

my son's birthday is at the end of september which means he'll go to school at the age of five and will be one of the oldest of his year...

my son is very sociable, his social skills are highly developed, and he's very independent for his age (he's never had a problem with unfamiliar people or places, doesn't need any time whatsoever to adjust to new situations). he LOVES going to nursery 3 whole days a week (since aged 6 months), he'd love to to go to EVERY day, asks me each morning if he can go... basically he is bored at home, wants constant intellectual stimulation as well as other children around him. my son shows several signs of giftedness, e. g. he can spell 6 letter words since the age of two. many people (psychologists, nursery nurses, gps etc.) have remarked on his intelligence though we haven't actually had it tested yet.

my husband and i both have an IQ of 140, and i remember when i was a child i was so bored at home, so my mum had to teach me to read and write at the age of three. i wished i had had the opportunity to go to school earlier then...

can i have my son's intelligence/suitability for school assessed so he might be able to go to school a year earlier?

it's not that i want to push him into something, make a genius out of him or anything like that, if he's really not suitable that's fine with me! but i feel strongly that it is wrong if he goes to school so late, that he's ready now... does anyone know if there's anything i can do/how to procede?

thanks, nicky

In other countries though I think they start later.

I'm glad you've decided against trying to get him to start earlier - I think that is the right decision! It's the 'not so obvious' things at school that can really help or hinder the school experience - for example, my kids know EXACTLY when everyone had their birthday and which birthday it was - and they seemed to mentally tick off when everyone turned 5!

I do understand where you're coming from - I was relieved when dd started that she wasn't 3 weeks younger, as she would have been awful at home for another year, and has really flourished at school - top group for everything despite being the youngest. And I was an August birthday and did ok, but it was a real pain when as someone said earlier, I was last to learn to drive, last to do everything really!

Tortoiseshell, I absolutely do agree about not assuming that the summer born children are all fine. And writing/ concentrating/ sitting still can all be problematic, even for a very bright child. But like you with your DD, I am very relieved that DS2 was born at the end of August rather than in September.

I just can see why the OP would be tempted and don't think it's entirely ridiculous, as some posters seem to.

School is for at least 16 years. So it needs to be considered in that respect - what is good for him now v. what will be good for him in the future as well.

As my sister, who has been teaching for over a decade now says, 'I have seen very bright 4-year-olds become very average 7-year-olds. And vice versa.'

I think you're trying to fob off your own parenting problems - not having time to cope with what sounds like a quite normal 4-year-old boy - on the school system.

I disagree that this is a good solution for your child, especially in the long-term.

All the reasons you give for wanting to put him in school early are actually quite flimsy.

You've been given some very sound advice on here from people who have been teaching at primary, secondary and adult levels for many years, and some positive, creative suggestions for how to more realistically deal with your issues.

But you're not listening.

Do you honestly think this is going to do your child any favours in his academic years with such an attitude?

If he is bored at home then do more with him. Does he do much art and craft? Going to soft play areas etc. Just because he is bored doesn't mean he needs school. Often its just trying new things, not necessarily more difficult things either. Just different.
What do you do with him at home?
Do you play board games/cards/ model making etc.

You may find, even though he is advanced now, he may not be later, kids tend to catch each other up

I have an extremely bright child and I can honestly say she has never been bored. She learnt to amuse herself very early on, first with toys, lego, arts etc, later with reading (she still reads on average 2 books a week, age 19) She actually likes to be quiet to ponder the world or examine a bug/leaf/tree. Let him learn to entertain himself, it's a fabulous skill to have

If time is an issue for you have you thought about having a nanny, au pair or mother's help?? I had mother's helps and au pairs when mine were small and it made a huge difference to spreading my time among the children (4 in 5 years)

They are at school for such a long time and small for such a short time, enjoy this time, it's very special

You could do what we did. DS1 is an October 1st birthday and was definitely ready for school (he went to nursery anyway). Send him to a private prep school for the "extra" year then you can decide whether to keep him there if you can afford it (or they may be bursaries) or send him to the local state school. DS2 is the opposite - a July birthday, he stayed an extra year in prep school - dyslexia did him no favours. He is 16 next week and just going into Year 11 in September. DS2 most definitely the oldest in his year!

your son sounds like my dd.She turned 4 last nov and started nursery last sept.

She stands out a mile in every respect but her current school would not have put her up a year.

She is going to a new school in sept starting reception and they are much more receptive to bright children.

My dd has always thought the children in her year were babies but currently reception and nursery are mixed so shes always got on with teh reception children and joins them when she is allowed too.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think you would be crazy to throw away the advantage that your child has by being one of the oldest in the year.
Statistically, he will retain that advantage even his year group are sitting their GCSEs and A Levels. A Radio 4 programme I was listening to recently said that there is a huge gulf (about 40%) between autumn born girls and summer born boys at Oxbridge. I have 3 summer born boys so am quite interested in this.
Think of all the fun you can have together during his last pre-school year and how much academic work you can do with him.
His teacher will think he is a genius when he starts Reception year!

I am afraid that I have not read the whole thread but I was in the same situation last year. DS1 is 5 on Sept 15th. He is a very chatty bright little boy and this time last year everyone was assuming he was starting school in Sept and he wasn't. I was really torn. DH and I were both v young for our year and I thought it would not do any harm. He is going to a private school so I guess I could have tried to wangle something but I decided against it for the following reasons (sorry to be so rigid in the way I set it out - trying not to waffle!)
1] when we visited the school and they saw when his birthday was they immediately said "lucky you - that is really good that he will be old for the year"
2] As a secondary school teacher I see some children coming through who are v young for their year (not just Aug babies but even younger than that) and socially it can be an issue.
3] Even though I work full time (as a teacher) I still thought he would benefit from a more relaxed regime than school every day
And the result? He has had a lovely year being able to play and make things ad nauseum! I know he can do this in reception but it is more relaxed elsewhere there have been moments when I have though "AAARgh I wish he was at school" and he did miss some of his friends at the beginning of the year but he has loved it and so have I. I spent time talking to his preschool about activities they could do with him and they have been great. he has been on visits to his new school and he really enjoyed them - and I was struck at how old he looked compared to some of the little ones there.
So the bottom line is - I know where you are coming from but just enjoy the fact that he does not have to hurry through school.

I home school my children, the youngest being homeschooled is four. She will be five in sept. I find you can then tailor the education to the childs needs, if they are advanced you can encourage that and you are not stuck to a school year, your child can then progress at a faster rate and be ale to follow her interests.
Ther is also lots of opportunities to meet loads of others in the same situation, so you or your child never feels isolated.

I was moved out of my school year and had to do y6 for 2 years. a) it meant that in y1 of infants, I lost all my mates and had to pile into a new class and try to fit in with existing cliques and b) when they moved to secondary school I was left in a class full of people I no longer knew.

Socially it did me no favours at all. Academically, I was always top 3 in my year and did well with GCSE's BUT I ended up seeing intelligence as a route to punishment. If I'd been a bit more average I'd have stayed with my friends. I wouldn't have done the last year twice. I wouldn't have been bullied at secondary school for not fitting in with my social background.

It's hard when you work trying to keep a child stimulated. But perhaps letting your little one be 'bored' and without stimulation will enhance his incredible IQ and allow him to become more independant.

I haven't read the whole of this thread, but I'd be tempted to keep your son in his own year-group and see how it goes. If he's obviously miles ahead of his peers and the school can't cope with it, that would be the time to make enquiries about putting him up a year (or to think of going private, where there's much more flexibility). It seems to me that there are heaps of things you can do at home with a bright four-year-old (my very bright daughter, who's just turned four, is going to miss most of Reception because I feel there are lots of things she can still do at home - even just things like going to chat to the greengrocer, playing in the garden, and visiting local old ladies!!)

Your son will be spending most of the next 14 years at school, so why rush into it? You may even find he does better academically (if that bothers you) by not going to school early. My mega-bright son did miss most of Reception, and was miles ahead of the others when he started, despite being one of the youngest in his class. I never 'taught' him formally - he just picked up a lot of things from being around parents/books/whatever. He also spent a lot of time being bored (we've never done classes or organised activities). He is still miles ahead academically, but fortunately his school is happy to deal with it (again, private schools can be helpful in this respect - though I have no experience of state education, so can't compare!)

I just don't see the point of pushing the school thing until you have to...

As a teacher and Mum of a very bright child - I have decided not to even send my daughter to the school nursery which is full-time because I think school is the wrong environment for such young children and can inhibit their talents rather than encourage them. I've opted for the more expensive, but in my opinion more appropriate private nursery where she will learn through play - even French speaking -and where the whole environment is aimed at benefiting the child. Sadly because of the way schools are monitored and judged they are in a position, even with the best of intentions, of having to push children towards the goals of the school (SATS results) resulting in children who can jump through the hoops of education, but who lose the creativity that was such a large part of their young intelligence. I suppose it depends on the school, but beware sometimes it's the best schools that have the most pressure on them to 'succeed'.

oh no, does that mean my dd is doomed to be unsuccessful as her birthday is at the very end of August?
any one know if there is any research into this?

'oh no, does that mean my dd is doomed to be unsuccessful as her birthday is at the very end of August?
any one know if there is any research into this? '

there is NO amount of research which will determine whether or not an individual will be 'successful' in life or not, especially because success is a relative term.

I'm an end-of-August birthday, and I have a PhD!! (Whether this is a measure of success or not is a different matter...)

Agree with PPs. The advantage of being among the eldest in a cohort is a big one. Academically you can see its effect for years (former primary school teacher here). I wouldn't give up that headstart lightly. Even the best school is an overwhelming place and a long day. In the UK we expect an enormous amount of our youngest children (compared to other countries which start full time school later) and it is a stressful environment for them.
Plus even if you were able to get him in you could get a nasty shock at the secondary transfer stage where his prospective secondary school might not want him for another year. Schools are must stricter about age on admission than they once were. In the late 90s I taught a girl who had to repeat Year 6 twice as she had been put in the wrong year and secondary transfer was inflexible.

ds started reception last sept with a reading age of 7.5 - (his birthday is march so is halfway throught the year group). he is also doing year 3 maths!! i wanted him to be put with children at the appropriate level of education for him in numeracy and literacy. I didnt want him moved up a year , but just to do certain aspects of his education with older children. the school refused. it seems the policy is they stay in the correct age group regardless of ability, and how much it holds them back by not being educated with children of a similar ability!! was told he could have an independent learning plan - but now they say that cant be done. i wish we could afford him to go private - but we have 4 dc and cant afford it for one let alone all of them!!!

That must be disappointing crkm. We had some able pupils who visited different classes at certain times e.g for whole class literacy. He definitely deserves an individual plan. I'm sure you have but it's worth asking for a meeting with the school SENCO and headteacher and see if you can get the LEA special needs advisor to attend. I would also explain that you are going to contact OFSTED directly if they are not prepared to make some sort of effort - that is your right.
Reading back I can see someone worried about their Summer born child. There are definitely plenty of able children who can shine through. Girls seem to cope better than boys quite often for a start.

Hate to say it, crkm, but the school may well be right. Children who are two years older than your ds may well be less competent readers, but they are going to be at a different level as to social and emotional development and that is important in lessons too.

I think it is better for your ds to be mildly bored for a few hours a week but to be with his peer group rather than to work with children who will think of him as a baby.

This doesn't mean he has to be put off education- there are loads of ways you can stimulate him at home by letting him learn something different, expanding his range. My parents let me learn foreign languages, my db taught his son to compose, I am teaching dd writing techniques. Lots of things you can do.

nybom - you sound very proud of your son's achievements, and that's wonderful. And what mother doesn't feel their child is the cleverest and most able child in the world, on some level?

But I really would urge you to let him be a normal little boy - I was moved up a year due to changing from French to English systems, and it was very hard. The school I went to had a specialist music school and was full of children with special abilities, and the ones who were happiest were the ones who weren't pushed or constantly told they were special.

Now I'm not saying you do this with your little boy, as I don't know you, but it's really hard for a child to be constantly told he's special and exceptional, which is the message doing things early sends even if it isn't articulated out loud. Sooner or later something suddenly takes them down a peg or two, and that coming down to earth can be really painful.

You do sound like you have a lot on your plate, but a bit of boredom won't harm him - we came up with some of our best games when bored! (Including the one where we blew chocolate powder all over the kitchen )

HTH

again:

it's not ME who thinks my DS is exceptionally clever, it's the professionals (education, health care...). it is because they keep remarking on the giftedness AND because my son wants to go to school that i am pursueing this matter.

and believe me, i'm letting him be a child - i rarely even read a story to him! (he learnt to spell by himself.)

i can't understand why everyone says "he'll go to school early enough", "let him be a child"... I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE GONE EARLY, why act as if school were a punishment. it is a joy, at least for some. why assume he should hate it? i was the youngest (and smallest) in my class and i loved the challenge despite beng a quiet shy child (DS is the opposite). i was still one of the best, and my age was never an issue...

also as many of you commented on staying with his peer group - as i said his peer group starting school this year! the majority of his closest friends are a month or two older than him. yet, he is the tallest, and he is emotionally as far as they are...

Sorry nybom, I didn't mean to imply that your DS wasn't exceptional - what I meant was that even gifted children don't benefit from knowing they're gifted, iyswim. People have mentioned bullying on here already a lot, and there's lots of other downsides, and by sending a child to school early you risk sending him the message that he's 'special'.

As I said in my post, I have no idea if you do tell him he's special and gifted, but was sharing my experience of children who are told this, directly or indirectly through special treatment.

You know your child best, and if you think he would really benefit from early schooling, then go ahead. I think what most people on here have been trying to say is that in their experience, it hasn't been a good idea.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Nybom, have you joined the National Association for Gifted Children? They have a good website and can give loads of advice re schools etc. You might even find some other parents in your area that you can meet up with. With regard to schooling, I don't think you will find much flexibility in the State system. Children are generally grouped by age only, and while there are supposed to be strategies in place to identify gifted children , not much happens. We were quite lucky with our eldest daughter, she goes to a small ( 90 kids) village school, where they teach TWO year groups in each room. This works well for her - she just gets on with the older kids work! She has plenty of friends of all ages, and we are going to try for a Scholarship to a private school when she is older. I think you have to do a lot of legwork yourself, and investigate all possible options. Good luck!

Nybom, I am very well prepared to believe that your ds is exceptional. (though no educator in the world can tell you whether he will still, be exceptional in 3 years time)

What I have been saying is that the Local Education Authority has a very limited pot of money to provide the free childcare that comes with fulltime education, so they are not likely to want to do that before the child reaches a certain age. Otherwise, they'd be overrun with parents who all wanted their children to do an extra year at school- because it's an awful lot cheaper and many families on low incomes are financially stretched.

Before your child reaches the set school age, barring the limited hours of free nursery time, it is up to you how you provide for your child to be stimulated.

So there are various alternatives:

You can do it at home - and you cannot make me believe that there are not enough ways of keeping an exceptional child stimulated in a home environment if somebody is able to give some time and though to it.

Your problem is that you have not got the time- so you need to make other arrangements. Your need for uninterrupted time is, strictly speaking, no concern of the LEA's.

If you can find the money, then a childminder might be an excellent alternative. Even a gifted child can have fun playing with other children.

A private school may be another solution- but then of course you will be paying.

If money is short, can you do the rest of your writing in the evenings when he is asleep? Or at weekends and let your husband manage the childcare? As I read your OP, he already does 3 full days at nursery, so we are talking of another 2 days to be found somehow.

(Those Mums who say 'just let the 4yo be bored'- have you ever tried writing a PhD in the company of a 4yo? He would have to stay bored a long time for the OP to be able to concentrate and turn out good research.)

I have plenty of experience of doing research and minding children at the same time and it seems to me that your expectations - both of the system to provide free childcare and of your ds to leave you in peace - are unrealistically high.

I don't think this is about your ds's particular giftedness: I have never met a 4yo who was not demanding or whose needs would sit easily with those of a PhD.

What you should do instead is to arrange a meeting with your tutor and explain the situation and ask what he/she suggests. They have experience - it is not an uncommon situation- and may well have some useful hints.