Moving for hood state schools- would you make these compromises?

[Toto21]

Hello. First time posting here. And that should have read “good” not “hood” but MN won’t let me change it!

Both of my children (9 and 7) are very bright and have “exceeded expectations” throughout primary school.

We live in an area with two very good grammar schools (one which I went to) but we feel the entrance exam culture here has gone mad (12 months of intense tutoring, plus homework, plus mock exams throughout the year) and some of the standards at the schools have slipped (high staff turnover and absence, bullying, poor pastoral care). The alternative state schools are abysmal (under performing, regular visits from the police) and we feel the primary school has really let our children down over the years to the point where we’re now having to top up with tutors which I never dreamt I would be doing. Our children have done well despite the school not because of it.

With our eldest ready to apply for secondary next year we have decided to sell our dream “forever home” and relocate for better state options.

We’ve found a house in a village with a secondary school which performs in the top 10% of state schools in the country. Last year 20% of children gained levels 7-9 in all subjects. The school was rated outstanding but was downgraded last year to “good” due to their support of SEN children (which is in their action plan to address). The primary option a couple of miles away is OFSTED rated outstanding and is either average or exceeding in reading/maths etc.

The house is not our dream home but is under budget, has space for home offices for us and has been recently renovated to a high standard.

The problem is that the village does not have good transport links and so there’s not a lot for teenagers to do. The kids would have to rely on us driving them to the nearest city half an hour away when they’re older.

This is a big upheaval for us and I recognise that some of our hesitation probably stems from our reluctance to sell our home for a possible downgrade. However, does this seem a reasonable compromise? Are we forfeiting the children’s extra-curricular opportunities, and opportunities for some independence when they’re older?

I wouldn’t do this. You’re placing a lot of reliance on Ofsted ratings. Those are subjective, and can change. You could also be positively surprised by the local grammar schools. If your children are that bright, they might need less tutoring than you think. But the bad transport links in the village are not going to change and are not subjective. Your future self won’t enjoy 60 minutes of extra driving several times a week into the nearest city and back. Your future teenagers might also not thank you when they’re stuck in a small village with nothing to do and their friends all live a long drive away.

@Greenbike Thanks for your response.

We’re not just relying on Ofsted though. We’ve looked at government performance tables, Snobe, reviews from people with children there, teacher reviews, Mumsnet recommendations for schools, the school website as well as Ofsted. The local news also reported that over 40 children gained level 7-9 in all subjects at GCSE last year out of 200 pupils.

The county has some well regarded secondaries and house prices are high in areas as families try to get their children in to them. This school has the best track record for performance out of all of them but as it’s slightly further out from the closest city the house prices are slightly more reasonable. We can afford a much more comfortable house there than 30 minutes up the road.

The kids could get themselves to the city but it would be an hour each way by public transport.

Where we live now it’s an hour’s journey to get to a city. There’s a big town 25 minutes away by car but it’s not particularly nice to visit.

I wouldn’t move. The trend is now to supplement state schools with tutors and extracurricular. I think the trend is here to stay.
We never tutored and our kids all got into grammars with just home prep. The youngest has also passed this year. If you want your DCs to succeed you rely on yourselves primarily these days. You have a nice home etc and the kids are happy. Teens need independence and extracurriculars. Far more important than a top top school. As long as it is adequate it will be fine.

I wouldn’t.
Their life outside school is so important. With no transport links it would be so hard for them to learn independence, get a job etc.

Thanks all. We’ve found dance classes and swimming lessons within 10 minutes of the village which is what they currently do outside school, and we have an online tutor that can move with us. Alternatively there are some tutors locally if we wanted to switch.

It’s more the distance to the city we’re worried about, which is better than the journey we currently have but not the 15 minute stroll in that we had envisioned. For that we’d have to pay a good £200k more.

No I wouldn't.

Only 40 kids receiving all 7-9 at GCSE in such a large year is pretty low - it wouldn't be enough to outweigh all the other things you mention.

You say your kids current school has let them down and yet they're both also exceeding expectations and happy. That doesn't quite fit.

If you love your house and don't really want to move then can you not find a single secondary school that you would accept? You say the standards at the grammars has slipped but what is that based on? And when people talk about grammar prep there is always a huge range of what people do to prepare - if yours are already doing well and have supportive parents then the intensive 12 months stuff might not even be necessary....

I’ve had children in Grammar , ‘good’ state and ok private .. I would favour the Grammar every time . Are the results you are seeing go down anything to do with the readjustment after the pandemic ?

Also work out the moving costs - stamp duty etc and think about how much tutoring you could pay for with that money

@Toto21 I'm a bit more on the fence than others.

DH and I both grew up in areas involving a short walk to a decent, small-ish town (completely different areas) and both valued the gradual freedom that gave us as teens. We now live on the edge of a big city with good transport links but lacking a 'nice' small town for DD to walk to, and a few years ago, when DD was mid-primary years, DH felt we should move to an area similar to where we both grew up before DD went to secondary.

We haven't done that, but it's fine. No solution is perfect, and many kids these days don't hang out with friends like they used to.

I would prioritise good schools over a nice social life for my teens. If you as parents are willing to be a taxi service for a few more years, your kids will be fine.

However, considering your current area and its grammar schools, I would question whether intense tutoring is really required to get into grammar if your DC are very bright. My DD had her pick of the Birmingham / West Midlands grammars after quite moderate home prep (1-1.5h per week throughout Y5.)

Obviously, your area might be a lot more competitive than ours. If you are willing to mention the grammar(s) in question you might have some people put your mind at rest.

That said, you do need a plan B if you go for grammar (our local comp was decent) so I do appreciate your dilemma.

@LetItGoToRuin thanks you.

The grammar used to be our first option but it’s highly competitive here and notoriously difficult to get in to now. They don’t have a catchment which opens them up to kids commuting 2 hours plus a day each way. They are introducing a priority area though where 10% of places are reserved for a local catchment which we’re not in, reducing the places available to my kids.

If we had a good alternatives available we would likely stay and put them in for the 11+ tutoring but the alternatives are incredibly poor and we don’t want to risk that for either of them.

On top of that we have friends that have children in the grammar who are suffering terrible bullying and disruption in class, and we know a number who have removed their children for the same reasons. Despite the good grades, both schools scored low with Ofsted (quality of teaching and teacher absences being two areas of concern).

The school we’re looking at falls in to the top 10% of secondaries in the country and the parents appear to value a good education, setting high expectations for their children and setting them up to study architecture, engineering, medicine etc at red brick universities and Oxbridge. The school identifies the top 10% of high performing students and sets higher ability work, and all children take their English GCSE in year 10 and they get great results. Where we are now, outside the grammar school, education is largely undervalued.

We would be reassured if both children went to grammar but the uncertainty of that seems like a big risk to take considering the alternatives here. Surely, outside of the grammar school system, there is still an opportunity to do well if you pick the right school?

The schools' performance generally will be based on educational calibre of those there. If they are high achievers then generally the results will be high. Saying that if your children are bright then they will achieve anywhere .

Given all you've said, if it's a choice between staying where you are or moving to that house that you've found, I think I would move. Best of luck with your decision.

Are there any private options that could be a back up for grammar? Although you don’t sound that enamoured by the grammar tbh..

I wouldn’t move ,you already have a tutor so hopefully will get into the grammar . Your 7 yr old is years away from secondary and schools can change a lot . Also motivated children with motivated parents will do well anywhere .

I'm amazed primary kids need tutors. Unless you are doing 11+, why bother?

If they are needing tutors now then maybe they won't cope at grammar?

@Blanketyre as I explained, the primary school options here are not great and the primary teaching has left a lot to be desired. The kids are excelling and the school as labelled both as top of their classes but we’ve noticed gaps where the school has missed parts of the curriculum or skipped over sections (now acknowledged by the Trust that has taken over the school) . Lots of parents resort to primary tutoring here because the primary schools are poor.

We’ve found that tutoring improves their confidence, and moves their abilities in to at least the year above if not more (e.g. my eldest had a reading age of 12+ when they were 6).

I would stay put OP. If your children are bright they will do well anywhere. It sounds as if the town you are thinking of moving too wouldn’t be great for them as they get older - better to have a well rounded child with independence by staying where you are.

I also think it’s not worth moving. If your children are already exceeding expectations, they won’t need years of tutoring. Just because people do it, doesn’t mean it’s necessary- or even that their kids particularly benefit. We tutored Ds at home between June and Aug - he did something every day. There was an initial improvement as he gained exam technique and learned a few new concepts, but eventually he plateaued. The exams aren’t that complicated and I think children soon reach their natural level with a bit (but not years) of practice.

Ds went to grammar til year 11, then we moved out of the city to a small town (work related reasons). The school he moved to was Ofsted outstanding and got good results, but there was loads of staff absence and it wasn’t well organised at all. I think the results are partly due to catchment. Ds also found it very boring socially as he was used to hanging out in a big city centre, going on the bus to school with kids from lots of different schools, youth group with kids from all over the city etc. It seemed more claustrophobic. Once he learned to drive it improved because he could get out and explore and visit old friends.

If you're dc are bright they will do well anywhere. Mine had no extra tuition, went comprehensive and a tiny % got the equivalent of all 7-9 and they still got good grades . Only on mumsnet do you get the angst about schools, hard working dc who are OK academically will.also do well.