Is he in the gifted spectrum?

[Fudgeandcandy]

Hi,

Not being a teacher or currently having many opportunities to talk with other mums with kids in the same age range, I wanted some feedback about how typical this is, whether I'm ready too much into this.

There's been a few occasions in the last few months when my now 5yr old has taken me and his father by surprise with the way he thinks about things (sometimes amusingly long winded). To give context my father (his paternal grandfather) was gifted (I am not!) and I'm wondering whether my son may be.

Here's the most recent example:
S:Mummy when are we going to the park?
Me: In an hour and a half
S:That's 60+30 right?
Me: Yes that's right
S:That's 90minutes right...that's 3/4 of 120..
Me: Yup..
S:But that's AGES away

When he was 4 1/2yrs we had the following conversation when he wanted me to quiz him on some multiplication tables (his older sister was learning her 2's)
Me:“ what’s 6 x 2 then S?”
S:“Umm.. well mummy, what’s 6 +3?”
Me:“ it’s 9”
S:“Ok so... umm.. 2 lots of 9s are 18... so then 3 + 3 is 6.. so what’s 18 take away 6 mummy”
Me:“ 12 ”
S: “ ok so it’s 12”

Equally, he will also say bizarre things like:

Ooops I hit post before I'd finished.

“Mummy..?”
“Yes S”
aid with utter amazement “ cats..... they have... a cat shape!!” (LOL)

Anyway, what do you all think? If this is as unusual as I think it may be?

To be honest it doesn’t really matter much either way. If a child is gifted then perhaps there will be some areas they find they excel in but often struggle in other areas. At school they may well get different work set for the area they excel in but require help to socialise etc.
So I’d wait and see what the school say (eg my 4 year old was reading confidently when he started school and they came to
Me to discuss what they were going to do to support and strengthen his learning- I hadn’t mentioned it as tbh I hadn’t realised quite how well he was reading!) I would also be very honest about your sons social skills and ability to relate to others- like you say “amusingly long winded” but that will actually be “annoyingly long to get to the point” to others I’m afraid. And kids will just not have the patience to even listen to him if that’s how he talks.
Gifts can be a curse or a blessing so help him to ensure his isn’t a barrier to socialising and peer group play.

I'm not sure, G&T means too 10% of ability range then yes in maths. For referrence my DM relates how I worked out 6 cakes divided by 4 was 1 and a half each before my 2nd birthday. I am bright but not extraordinary (and I can't spell)

I have a feeling you'll be rounded on because mumsnet doesn't seem to like talking about this subject much.But to me, he sounds like he's got a knack for maths.

I guess the main thing is to keep nurturing that and encouraging his curiosity, while looking out for signs that he's not so good at other stuff (eg he might need help socialising?)

Sounds like he has great understanding of numbers and love for it. Follow his lead and give him plenty of opportunity and resources to advance his interest.

Sounds like he has a good maths brain. My ds is similar, he is fascinated by number relationships but very reluctant to write anything down which will, I suspect, hinder him in developing any talent he has. I think I would follow up the 6x2 explanation with something like “yes, that’s the right answer, well done, shall we try and find a quicker way to get to the same answer?” He’s clearly ready to start exploring maths a bit so understanding that there are different routes to the same answer is a good start. (Especially given his current thought processes are so Byzantine!)

Perhaps with the “cat shaped cat” example, you could ask him what shapes he could use to make a picture of a cat. Her face is a circle, her ears are triangles etc. Or you can, of course, leave it as “don’t kids say daft things...!” Not everything has to be a teachable moment!

Thanks all- some good things to think about. I wouldn’t have said he had difficulties socialising but then equally for the last 18months I’ve not really observed him socialising with anyone other than his sister ( other than briefly at drop off and pick up)! He has a parents evening in a few weeks so I will definitely be interested to hear about social skills and friendships as well as learning. Tricky to know what to do about the ‘long winded/annoying’ explanations..... I don’t want to give him any anxiety about how he talks or shut him down (there’s sometimes a lot of hesitancy (umms) and struggling to articulate his thoughts) but I could see how if he doesn’t grow out of it, it could be frustrating for others (especially teachers!)

My D's had a reading age of 7 years and 4 months when he started school at 4 and knew his 2 times tables. He was very numerate but was not gifted. He was very good at Art too.

Sounds completely normal to me.

Oh, good thing to consider if he has maths brain is music. Good at pattern recognition means he maybe good at reading music too.

He’s clearly good at maths but these examples wouldn’t suggest he’s necessarily gifted. The times table one is an odd one because he might seem like he’s done some sort of mental gymnastics but it would have been far easier for him to just do 6x2.

It's great, sounds like he has a good grasp of maths concepts. One thing to do is maybe to get something like Numicons, they are a fun and colourful way to introduce different maths concepts, fractions, divisions, multiplication.

It's really hard to tell if he will carry on being interested in maths and using maths language as part of every day life but he sounds really good. Best thing to do I think is to praise effort and not say things like 'you are so clever'. It encourages them to work hard instead of assuming that things will come easy for them. It's one reason why I don't like the term 'gifted' as if it doesn't require any effort, it's a gift. Most 'gifted' children I know work pretty hard!

Yes, sound like you've got a mathematician in the making! It'll be great to encourage his interest in maths. I'd be considering a maths tutor or something, so he can further his ability/ interest with someone, if you're not so keen on maths.

My DD is very musical. I am not, neither is DH. She has lessons twice weekly and has done for the last few years, now 6yo she is doing very well in that area but struggles with other things. I wouldn't say she's G&T at all, just very good at one particular subject. It comes naturally somehow.

My DS was similar and now about to go to secondary still shows an affinity with maths, though sadly doesn't ask me to give him sums any more when we go out for a walk! That was very cute, and kept me on my toes too .
Whether the school decides to differentiate his work will vary, I believe. Especially in the early years my DS was really bored in maths as it was very easy for him. I spoke to the head at one point but she said they don't put children ahead any more as it's all about depth of learning. I couldn't work out if this is bullshit - surely if you understand a basic concept there is not much deeper you can go - but I do understand that in a class of 30 it would be impossible to give every child exactly what they need.

Sorry posted without finishing my message. Meant to say that the bigger problem with my DS is that he has become a bit cocky about his ability and is not used to being pushed or getting things wrong in maths. I remember a few years ago him saying something along the lines of not needing to learn maths as he knew it all already . He is a lovely child and not generally cocky, but he has sailed through primary maths without having to apply himself at all. At some point (hopefully quite soon) he is going to find out that there is a lot more to maths than he currently realises.

Your ds sounds very like my ds was at the same age. He was fascinated by patterns in Maths and I remember him waking me up excitedly to tell me that as well as counting in 2's and 3's you could do it in any number and he had just worked out what in essence was his 12 times table.
He was a confident reader so I bought him some fun maths books (The Murderous Maths series) which took him through primary (which was challenging for him for the same reasons @ColouringPencils) and he taught himself the basics of algebra, probability.
Thankfully Maths is one subject where depth can be explored once a dc gets to secondary and can start on the UKMT Maths challenges.
So, is my ds still a gifted Mathematician? Depends what you mean by gifted. He is at Oxford studying Maths and has just been made a 'scholar' so, yes, he's pretty good. But not a genius. But he truly loves Maths and has spent may years just doing a lot of it for fun.

He sounds like my nephew, who is extremely bright (speaking well in 3 languages by age 3, now in his teens trying out for intentional maths Olympiad), but not gifted. In many ways that is better - gifted kids can be hard work. Just keep doing what you are doing, and watch out for boredom at school.

@ColouringPencils is right. School is focussed more on mastery now. But once you've mastered the mastery syllabus then they will move you up.

At 5, C1 knew all tables up to 14 and had an incredible gift for mental maths using T, H, T and U. They also had an aptitude for music but by memory rather than reading the music. They are academic across the board.

Their younger sibling hasn't started school yet but is seemingly as able. All tables up to 12, fractions etc. but also puzzles and games. Sometimes it feels a bit like the Queens Gambit. They play online.

Just encourage interests. There will always be gaps or areas not as strong. Child One did a Year 2 SAT paper in Reception to try and identify areas of learning required and whilst mental maths was fine, school were still able to identify areas to work on.

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

Sounds completely normal to me.

Lol not to me it doesn't!

I've 4dc including a 6 year old and none of them had that level of mathematical understanding at 5! Although my oldest two (12 and 15) are now very ahead in maths (top of the class stuff) so although I would imagine your ds will be very able at maths, it doesn't mean that other children won't be just as able, but they will get there on a different timescale.

Your ds sounds very interesting and I imagine enjoyable to teach!

He may well be. Don't get your hopes up.

Eldest DS was highly G&T. Also an idle teenage boy. He was predicted 5 A*s at A level. He took Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Chemistry and Economics.

I think he came out on A, B,B,C,D

He basically never opened a book for two years.

He's almost 30 now and is happily working in a decent enough job. But he's certainly been content to cruise. We don't mind. It's his life. But you can be extremely bright and still CBA to put the effort in.

My DS is in yr 1 and is 6 and has been at a prep school since nursery, uses better language than my older DC and was able to do a talk about nocturnal animals in reception. He has been doing yr 2 paper in comprehension, maths, verbal and non verbal reasoning since start of year 1 and he last week wrote a 4 page essay on his own. This has nothing to do with being gifted and talented. It is what he is prepped for at school, they are encouraged to go off and be creative and its not an issue if they make mistakes or spelling mistakes. Its all about having a 'can' do attitude and being up for learning. You should always encourage a thirst for learning and if your son has a aptitude for maths then encourage it. In my DS school they are all encouraged to talk and explain and I have had to learn to let him do his long winded explanation. It helps with there communication skills and confidence.

I wouldn't worry about it. He sounds bright and interested in the world. You don't have to 'do' anything about it. Just love him and enjoy his company

Well, I was a gifted child - could read at 3 and write full sentences at 4, then skipped 18 months of school in a change of countries. I'm very successful in my chosen field now (I did a PhD and found it long & exhausting but not difficult as such). My IQ is around 140 apparently although over 120 it's not a particularly precise measurement.

But ... the thing is, what does 'gifted' mean? and what will it mean for your DS? One of my siblings is not book-learned at all, but is in high demand & hugely respected internationally for other skills and is paid probably 3 to 4 times what I'm paid. My sibling is happy doing what they're doing, I'm happy doing the only thing I've ever wanted to do for a living - that's the really significant thing.

We all had a very enriched childhood - we did lots of extra-curricular activities, both creative and athletic. Nothing particularly competitive: we were a very deliberately non-competitive family. Standards were high, but they were internalised - so it really was doing the best you could do, not doing better than Jane sitting next to you.

So make sure your DS is offered a really rich array of activities: music, Scouts, camping, outdoors, art galleries, theatre ... see what makes him excited, and let him go with it.

And don't compare him. Just help him find what he really loves. And remember, it's not a straight line journey.

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

Sounds completely normal to me.

Stop talking out of your ass.

sounds like my [email protected] had problems as the primary school wouldnt let her move more than2years ahead with her maths.I had no idea what to do but eventually removed her from school as her love of maths/problem solving and calculators and all things numerical simply wasnt being encouraged and she started refusing the endless amounts of repetition as she was bored to tears(about8yrs old)My dd pretty much did no official school at all for 4 years (just worked from a laptop at online stuff)as we backpacked around the world -worked wherever looked interesting&and lived on a boat.She got to aged11 and did the equivalent of5years of maths in under2years and is now doing Alevel maths &Spanish at14(taught herself online) as well as having written a journal as a novel.She was offered3 scholarships in the area we settled in when covid put an end to out travels on the basis of a potfolio of home ed work&tests..she chose the school that allowed her the largest creative input over her studies.she can do whatever she likes as the school utilize one of the distance ed units in students who are well motivated/academically able and they work in a seperate office for tgese lessons.She will be studying uni engineering &physics/maths in yr10 through the SUN program as it will shave considerable time of a degree and save money..
You need to gauge a balance between social skills&feeding the interest their brains seem to crave..i could see my dd could easily have become incredibly serious,uptight and a bit socially gauche-so the years away from a school environment has had a fantastic outcome for her socially.