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Gifted and talented

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Original poster

International Mathematics Olympiad on BB2 yesterday

82 replies

spokette · 15/10/2007 12:14

Did anybody watch this about the young mathematical geniuses who were competing to represent GB at the IMO? These teenagers were exceptionally gifted and on a completely different level to 99.9% of the population.

Being exceptional gifted is very rare and I suspect a lot of children who are now singled out for G&T programmes are in fact just very intelligent.

This programme was an eye opener for me anyway!

OP posts:
Wisteria · 15/10/2007 13:20

Yes, they did. My impression was that Jos was quite high on the aspergers scale and could not fathom emotion whereas Daniel had a lower rating on the scale and had quite a large emotional capability.

I also got the feeling that Jos' arrogance was more that he didn't know how (had not been taught possibly) to accept that he could be wrong. If you noticed, when he was singled out for not being able to make a conclusion work he appeared completely lost and not sure how to react.

He was undoubtedly arrogant but I felt as Saul did, that this was the form his aspergers had taken and I was left wondering how much of it does depend on the way your parents treat you and the disability/ gift in general.

I worried about Daniel's marriage only in that I would imagine it could be fatal if she ever left him.

Thoroughly fascinating programme though, my dcs were enthralled but groaned when I first put it on !

TellusMater · 15/10/2007 14:03

They certainly seemed to focus on the most, not sure of the right word, troubled? I wonder if the parents of the other boys had some input into how much they appeared, or whether they were just less 'interesting' - again for want of a better word.

NotAnOtter · 15/10/2007 14:07

they were all genii

i think i would rather be 'normal' it seemed such a tortured existance

bollox has Jos NOT looked at the imo questions before!!!

Wisteria · 15/10/2007 15:31

LOL - yes Otter, that's exactly what we said about Jos! I thought he was rather sad really.

I just hope that the people behind the IMO have some safety nets in place to deal with the stark disappointment of not making it and/ or pressure of achieving and to generally take care of these children's emotional welfare after the event. To be honest the whole thing scared me, although I'm not knocking the sheer intelligence obviously - they are incredible.

I thought it was very telling that not only do the Chinese always win but I think I'm right in saying that China has phenomenally high suicide rates in teens.

Original poster
spokette · 15/10/2007 16:25

One of the Chinese competitors said that a downside of competing is that it left no time to pursue other interests. He and his team members all won gold medals but he did not look ecstatic, he looked rather jaded.

I wonder how Ruth Lawrence would have faired amongst these uberteens?

OP posts:
nimnom · 15/10/2007 16:41

clerkkent,
I agree with you totally. I think maths has a bad enough reputation as it is without implying that everyone that is good at it also has to have some autistic tendancies. That may sound harsh, but although I enjoyed this programme very much (I'm doing a maths degree, so I was left feeling very inadequate by these young brains!), it did focus a lot on Daniel and particularly Jos. I missed the first twenty minutes, but the rest hardly mentioned the other competitors at all.

flatmouse · 15/10/2007 16:50

My db represented GB in this many moons ago in Australia. I believe he very much enjoyed himself and it helped him with his social skills.

roisin · 15/10/2007 17:07

I really enjoyed this programme - especially Jos. I thought he was fab: so bluntly honest and open and utterly unemotional.

I'm sure he'd be very hard to live with though.

But I didn't think he was unhappy.

TellusMater · 15/10/2007 17:08

Really? Even when he found out he wasn't in the team? I think he was struggling then...

gizmo · 15/10/2007 17:26

His reaction to not making the team cast the most light on his character, I thought. Obviously he had problems expressing enthusiasm, but until you saw what he was like when he was disappointed, you couldn't understand how enthusiastic he had been throughout the whole of the first half of the programme. I felt very sorry for him: his situation means he's always going to struggle, even in an academic environment, unless there is some concerted effort to work on his ability to interact with people in social groups.

It did occur to me that the problem appeared to be a highly competitive personality which combined with Aspergers to make someone who was very hard to deal with in a social situation, but I'm ill qualified to gauge that because I don't know enough about Aspergers.

Most of these kids, Aspies or not, reported being bullied, too. That, to me, is just a bloody awful shame - why can't the money for 'gifted and talented' money be concentrated on letting children like these reach their full potential?

dissle · 15/10/2007 17:31

oh it was so interesting.
I was very worried for the future of each of the kids as i felt that they are all candidates for suicide.
Probably a very blanket statement but i just felt that they were all the extreme of lonely and isolated and misunderstood.
An absolutely amazing glance into brilliance tho, a cracking programme.

RTKangaMummy · 15/10/2007 17:39

www.imo2006.dmfa.si/participants/GBR.html

Here are their details

RTKangaMummy · 15/10/2007 17:41

imo2006.dmfa.si/participants/GBR.html

I don't know if this will work, it isn't a REAL website address

dayofftomorrow · 16/10/2007 09:13

I wonder if the system would end up failing some of these kids at university entrance if we went across to the IB which require broader study than A levels, the program does show how we should appreciate and encourage human differences

cornsilk · 16/10/2007 09:33

It was a brilliant programme. I thought Jos was fascinating, would be interested to know if he actually was AS. I disagree that Daniel was lower on the AS spectrum, his difficulties were different to Jos's, he wouldn't go up for his medal for instance. It was interesting that he said he felt comfortable in China as the Chinese didn't notice his 'differences' as he was different in their culture anyway. I wonder whether he would have been as comfortable with an English girlfriend. I also thought the 'coach' who had previously competed in the IMO showed signs of AS. The interviewer asked him what it felt like to win a medal and he just looked blank and said it was difficult to put his feelings into words.

Wisteria · 16/10/2007 10:00

I'm sure they said Jos was.

cornsilk · 16/10/2007 10:09

I missed the start so didn't see that. Hope it's repeated.

Wisteria · 16/10/2007 10:42

I can find out probably, it was a friend of a friend who filmed it..

Tiggiwinkle · 16/10/2007 10:49

I think some of the comments on this thread illustrate just how misunderstood Asperger's is, still, despite the fact that it has been in the press more recently. I have two DSs diagnosed with AS (both very different each from the other) and find it sad that there are such misconceptions around. As for "freakshow"! That is a really insightful comment!

kateyp · 16/10/2007 10:57

But didn't anyone think that Jos was similar to his Mum too in terms of personality? Which made me wonder how much was his AS and how much was "familial" (for want of a better word).

Thought the documentary was fascinating though. I especially loved whichever one it was (Jonathon maybe?) who said that people he knew would think he was geeky for winning a silver medal - but then they probably thought he was slightly geeky for going to the IMO in the first place. Yes. Slightly!!

Wisteria · 16/10/2007 11:12

Tiggi - I think the poster who said that was referring to the fact that the makers of the prog. made it seem like that, ie. focused on the disabilities as opposed to the talents. I don't think it was meant to imply that she felt that it was a 'fs', I hate the word too, it could have been better put.

The whole point of AS (in my understanding) is that there is a sliding scale of severity and every child with AS is totally different, I think the way that AS children are treated at home and school has far reaching effects to the way they manage the condition in their futures. The mistake that used to be made with autism in general was that all children were treated in the same way irrespective of the form their AS took and I hope that that has now changed as it should have done so that treatment is tailored to the individual requirements IYSWIM.

cornsilk · 16/10/2007 11:19

I didn't see the bit with Jos's mum. I really want to see this again!

nimnom · 16/10/2007 12:05

I agree Wisteria. This programme was meant to be about the IMO but I felt that the focus on Jos and Daniel upset the balance of the programme and in fact did a disservice to children/young adults with AS.

isgrassgreener · 16/10/2007 13:37

I don't really agree with you Ninmom. I don't see how it did a disservice to AS, it showed how some AS children can be.
I think that the problem here is that you take from a programme what you see to be relevent to yourself, therefore looking at the programme from a G & T view, it did not show enough of the NT children.
Perhaps your expectation of the programme was different to what it was, or perhaps it was pitched as something different than it was.
But the AS children were shown acting in the way they do act, perhaps some people just didn't get that.

TellusMater · 16/10/2007 13:43

I wonder why you feel it did a disservice to people with AS? Do you think they were misrepresented?