resistance when practisting by himself, but enjoying orchestras /to stop or not to stop

[keyboardwithpaper]

my DS is in year 7, preparing for grade 5. He also plays the piano.
It seems he is not enjoying his practice much, I have been persuading him so far, he loves ensembles/ orchestra playing, but just does not enjoying practising by himself...I am thinking that perhaps to stop going for grades and only do pieces he might enjoy ( he enjoys playing pieces with the full piano accompaniment, which sounds musical). I thought perhaps, reaching grade 6 and then to stop...but not sure it is worthwhile with the amount of resistance his has to practise.

Perhaps piano could be the instrument that he could aim for grade 6 (more proficiency, Ucas points)

Do it for fun. When the fun goes what is the point? (UCAS points. Oh please)

These are not normal times, though. Is there any ensemble group at all, even via online? I’d think quite a few children might be feeling disheartened about lots of things right now. What instrument is it?

I was a talented pianist at that age. I hated my lessons and my practice. Except arpeggios which I would play as loud as possible to piss everyone off. As soon as I was old enough I stopped my lessons.

I wanted to learn jazz, blues, improv. Not Bach. So much Bach. All these years later I invested in a piano. I haven't touched it once. The lessons and the practice killed the joy completely for me.

If your son is talented, Foster the joy.

I had the same experience as your DS. Loved orchestra and ensembles but practise - total nightmare. I was okayish while my piano playing DB was at home because he would accompany me and I really enjoyed how pieces sounded then but having to laboriously run up and down scales and arpeggios and grade pieces I loathed the majority of, spoiled any enjoyment I got from the instrument.

If your DS get his grade 5 then that puts him in a good position should he ever wish to take GCSE music. Unless he is thinking of music as a career I would concentrate on the enjoyment rather than attainment.

I think if I could have had some control over whether I took grades or whether I wanted to learn for please I would have wanted to carry on. As it was I gave up lessons at 16 and it felt like a blessed relief. Yes I’d got grade 8 but the price of that was being put off playing for the next 20 years.

I would try get him through the grade v and then have a chat about what he wants and would enjoy perhaps.

Dd never practiced much, managed to get to grade 8 by 17 on 2 instruments and voice though so a level music was a breeze. She loved playing in the orchestra and plays as an adult (now conducts too). An orchestral instrumental gives them a hobby for life, especially good for socially awkward people like dd

Two instruments is a lot, especially when he dislikes practicing. Would stop one immediately - probably piano since he likes ensembles. If he does what you agree is an OK amount of practice would let him continue the second instrument.

Thank you, Definitely, social element is good, as DS (instrument - Double bass) is quite reserved. I will talk to him, to try to get to grade 5 and then stop grades, just to do for enjoyment...he already knows 2 pieces and some scales for grade 5, so perhaps makes sense to take grade 5...

I played the violin when I was younger and hated practising on my own but loved playing in a string group. I only got to grade 4 and gave it up but now as an adult, I can't join an orchestra to play for fun as they expect you to be grade 8 standard I would definitely allow him to play the piano for fun and just have a break from grades for a bit. You might find he improves and could whizz through the grades.

Just tried to divide programme of practice into 3 chunks and each day to do a different chank, so that there is a variety within each day ( a block of 3 days or so...), hopefully, it will be more interesting. Also, will cut the practice time - 20 min each instrument or alternate: one day 1 instrument, the other day other instrument ...

What kind of music does he actually like?

Double bass doesn’t really set him up for playing alone for enjoyment or future social fun, like guitar or keyboards.

Mine thrived best playing the music they most enjoyed, the one who had kept it up beyond the end of school and made it a hobby plays jazz from choice, bass guitar.

And various rock genres.

2 instruments is a lot, except for v keen, diligent, musical DC.

Those instruments also both have disadvantages. Piano not usually part of ensembles. Double bass v tricky to continue as an adult unless he has his own transport.

Getting to X grade then quitting seems arbitrary. The most likely outcome is that he quits both sometime in next few years, so since 2 sets of music lessons must cost £1000 + a year you could save a lot of money cutting back sooner.

thank you...yes, maybe quitting sooner, or not doing grade 5 only for pieces he enjoys, jazz...he aays.

or...
switching to bass guitar?

I think it's likely to be the instrument.
I have two musical children. One is very "accomplished", the other has done only one grading, back a seven year old. He isn't motivated by pieces of paper in the same way but he is just as talented. His orchestral instrument has been the wrong instrument for him, and he's just dropped it at Easter, having begun a third instrument about a year ago that is his one true love. He's so much happier, and plays the new instrument for hours when he can.
Grades are not important, change instruments soon.
If he doesn't want to do a new instrument then he isn't musical and you should leave it.

I'd try to get to the bottom of what it is he is and isn't enjoying. You say he likes jazz? And likes playing pieces with piano - is that something he gets to do regularly, does his teacher play, or do you have a pianist at home? Does he get on well with his current teacher? How amenable would teacher be to more of a "just for fun" approach? Be prepared to change teacher if his current teacher is not able to do what he wants, which might be lots of jazzy music and playing duets with teacher or with teacher on piano or whatever. I know lots of teachers who would be delighted to be freed up from the drudge of getting a pupil through exam after exam, and the pupil would progress quicker for it.

Lots of bass players also play bass guitar - I'm not sure I'd suggest a switch, most people I know who switch carry on both so they can play in different types of ensembles. I'd probably stick with the lessons being on double bass, I get the impression it has more flexibility - but bassists may want to tell me that's wrong!

I think possibly I'd scrap the "just get to grade x" thing and just take an indefinite break from grades if you think they are part of the problem. Scales and pieces aren't wasted if he doesn't take the grade. If he likes the pieces he can finish learning them, if he doesn't then learn something different; my DD hasn't done any grades yet, she still learns scales, just one at a time as a warm up rather than trying to memorise them by the dozen. Much more civilised.

Given where we are at with lockdown right now, it's not a good time to be planning exams anyway - I guess nothing running this term anyway, so you'd be still playing the same pieces in 6 months, which is too long in my book. DS was going to do one this term, he's moved on to different music rather than keep it all dragging on.

From my experiences, I strongly believe it should be left up to the child.

Like a PP, I finished Grade 7 pianoforte and hated it. I stopped playing completely at 15. DH, on the other hand, started playing the violin at around 13 (he mowed lawns to earn the tuition money) and then had to stop whilst he supported himself through Uni and established his (non music-related) career. He went back for lessons and grades 6-8 exams in his thirties and played in a semiprofessional orchestra for a few years.

We decided to let our kids choose what they wanted to do. Our eldest took violin lessons from age 3, then guitar & piano. She played beautifully but declined to do exams. However, playing several instruments helped her develop a good general ear for music and after only a few months of singing lessons, she achieved a high A mark in grade 3. Then, she ceased her music interests altogether.

We didn’t push, or even suggest, music lessons to our younger kids, but they had some basic lessons at school and suddenly around age 9, DS became very interested and focused. He taught himself from YouTube and other internet sources and practised 2-3 hrs a day. At age 12, he entered an Eisteddfod playing a piece that was at least grade 8 level in difficulty and won first prize against other strong entrants. He also entered the self composition section & though there were no other entrants, the judge gave him a vote of approval by awarding a mark that was higher than his winning score in the other section. He still refuses to take formal music lessons but has a fantastic relationship with his high school music teacher. He continues to practise three hours a day (more if he doesn’t have other occupying tasks) and now mostly focuses on his own compositions (he’s probably right in stating that being self taught and completely autonomous allows him to be more creative and unique). He’s planning to take music as one of his senior high school subjects and developing his YouTube channel.

Nicola Benedetti is just about to launch three weeks of virtual orchestra sessions:
"The very first Virtual Benedetti Sessions will provide musicians of all ages and stages, and from all over the world, with three weeks of consistent, scheduled online tuition and inspiration, preparing collectively for a final weekend of activity celebrating the coming together of our global music community."
You could try that out as a project and see if he is more or less motivated to practise at the end? He may find something completely different more inspirational than more of the same old practise.

www.benedettifoundation.org/virtualsessions

I play double bass and love playing in an orchestra. He would have plenty of opportunities. I only practice now if something is scarily hard, most of the time I just muddle on throughout. He needs to decide what he enjoys and how he can do that. Music lessons are never wasted in my view.

One of my children is in y6 and sounds similar. Two instruments both grade 6 standard (grade 5 distinctions in both previous exams). Practises piano quite happily but much prefers orchestra for the viola than the practice at home. I think she finds the pieces boring and got to grade 5 in 1.5 years of viola so came very naturally. She can also just pick up a violin and play it. Is the double bass music simple? (Compared to the piano?) sorry I have no idea but that seems to be the issue for viola. She loves playing harmonies though when her brother plays the violin.