Okay folks - I am aware that I may be opening a can of worms here but why does this topic piss so many people off?

[Theclosetpagan]

I mean if someone has deemed a child G+T (or is it G or T) why is it that they seem to be flamed when they post about any difficulties here?

If the label has come from outside the family and the family struggle why can't they post here saying "Help" without people leaping in to say "your child sounds normal to me"

For what it's worth I don't have a child labelled as G+T but am glad I don't given the response some posters get to this topic.

Surely it's okay for some children to be extra bright. Or is it that there is distrust of this label?

Just interested really.

After reading much of this thread, I think that the problem is that there are parents like Kerrymum who genuinely have a G&T child and parents who just want to boast.

Nothing wrong with boasting about your child, everyone does it to a certain extent, but when someone says "DD is already using xxx words at only xx months and knows the names of all the trees in our street ..." then asks if they should be worrying about the child being G&T.

Just say, "Sorry, but I have to boast about my DD cause she is so great" and get it out of your system.

Btw, I find it sad that we worry about a child being too intelligent more than a child being a bit thick. Sometimes you get the impression that the schools would rather the child slowed down to his peers' level instead of encouraging him to live up to his full potential.

So if you dont mind me asking, how do you reckognise G&T? How early?

My dh come home after visiting his friend and their 2 years and 2 month old son, and he said to me, "we really need to start emphasizing teaching DS2 the alphabet and reading" To wich I replied "Darling, we need to do that with our 5 year old, why should we do that with DS2?"

Apparently he had seen their two year old read. Posters on the wall, he could spell, and read it out. He could talk properly, in hindi and english. He could say out the alphabet and count. My dh said to me "well, if he can, shouldnt our boy too, they are the same age". erm, dont think so.

You reckon this little boy could be G&T?

I think that there is a major divide between the US and the UK over tralking about this sort of stuff.

Dh spent the first 7 years of life in the US. His kindergarden teacher got him tested, and took MIL to one side and told her that it was essential that dh be taken out of the ordinary system and placed in a school for the gifted, words like 'Genius' and 'prodegy' were being used.

They came home to the UK, and dh went to your bog standard primary, and then comprehensive school.

He breezed through is A levels and got a place at Oxford, and then went to to be a fighter pilot! All with no acceleration, or G and T schemes, or special schools for the gifted.

And he is also happy and well adjusted

Oh and MIL was not a pushy mum at all. She was a simgle mother of 4 boys and there was very little cash around to help to 'accelerate' the boys. They didn't live in a council house, but they did get free school meals during their childhood.

If kids are really that bright(as dh was/is) they can't help but learn

KM- what chess rating is your son? There are lots of places online he can play people with all sorts of ratings. If he's at FM, IM or GM level then presumably lots of people will be interested in playing him.

Lots of people on come onto these threads to say how ridiculous the whole G&T thing is have gone on to do extremely well academically. Far above the top 10%. All without needing to be recognised or categorised. There's a lesson to be learned there I think.

KM- you have repeatedly moaned on here that your son isn't getting a suitable education and I've repeatedly said on here if that is the case then presumably you can do something about it. (You could in the UK). You just need to find out the legal responsibilities of the state and insist they are applied. Don't expect it to be easy. It's bloody difficult to get SN met adequately, but it doesn't stop parents doing what they can to ensure that happens. Moaning but not actually doing anything is crazy.

I'm sure the 'someone I know is G&T but went to a bog-standard school and is still an academic high flyer' are right about those particular cases. But my own experience is different. I have no idea whether I was just clever or would be defined as G&T - I was always top of my class by a country mile at my very good but all-ability intake church primary school. And used to help out the less high flying kids in my class. (Still remember one girl yelling out 'Edam, where was Jesus born again?' from the other side of the room. Which was a bit thick given we were at a church school.)

Then we moved house and I went to two sink comps and was very badly bullied for having a different accent and being interested in school work. Had never come across the idea that sticking your hand up in lessons marked you out for retribution before.

It did change me and had a life-long effect. I started to play truant, because school was so awful, and perform well under my ability. Eventually my mother found out and thank God pulled me out of that school. The teachers knew perfectly well what had been going on but didn't care.

I passed the entrance exam for a very academic independent school. And was still top of the class when I bothered. But the damage had been done. I still learnt outside school, devoured books and so on. But at school I couldn't get back to the person I had been, even in the 'right' environment. And underperformed in O and A levels - got 'good' grades at O and fucked up A. I got back on track in my mid-20s, did very well at work and ended up being one of the youngest people at senior level in my field. Won awards, all that stuff. Have now stepped off the career ladder and work part-time o spend more time with ds. But I still have to fight the tendency to underperform - it's a real drive.

Sorry that's such a long post but wanted to show the 'bright kids always do well' theory does not necessarily apply. It's a subject close to my heart because my experiences still hurt, almost 20 years later.

edam - I don;t think the problem in that school was being bright in itself, it was in being interested in working. Of course children should be 'allowed' to excel/enjoy/try hard in academics at school without being beaten up for it (one reason ds2 and ds3 won't be going to our catchement comp), but its not really related to the whole G&T thing. I suspect lots of avergae people at that school did a whole lot worse that they could have as well, because they weren't 'allowed' to work.

I was there, Gess, it was both. And one was caused by the other. I stuck out like a sore thumb, tbh.

There is a huge difference between being G and T and hothoused imo which sometimes does get confused.

edam sorry that maybe came out wrong- what I meant was that being identified as G&T would have been absolutely no help to you at all in that situation. There were different issues within the school that needed tackling.

Oh, you are probably right, not bothered about not being identified, don't think it existed in my day. And no idea whether I'd qualify, was probably just bright as opposed to G&T IYSWIM. Was just wanting to give a different POV on the 'bright kids will always be OK' line.

My child's potential goes completely to waste. Her school shout at her when she shows off her talents, she is told that she is being stupid. People are resentful and jealous of the fact that she can do something they can't. She is ridiculed for this and I really do feel so so sad for her.

She can fart pop songs!

Boasting - yes I put that word then erased it. You put it well Kindersuprise.

Good one 'Barb.

I can't really see the problem. If he is very talented (great!) then get him into an academic private school. They all have scholarships because having very bright children will lift their results. I can see that there might be parenting challenges to having a child with a strong gift in any direction, whether that is about supporting them with a sport (all that driving) or when they are clearly brighter than you (not a comfortable position to be in with a small child I suspect). But otherwise agree with the 10% thing - it's nuts! When I was at primary school I was top of the class - would I have been G&T? Howevever at academic private school I was in the top groups for only some things. I know I am bright, and I have done fairly well for myself, and I am grateful for that. My big sister has three degrees (one from Oxford) she is academic, but I am sure not particularly "gifted". I just think that for most people the term is a complete misnomer. My ds is in an acellerated group for maths, and somehow in the top set for literacy at school (god knows why as he is dyslexic). He is bright, and we expect him to do well in life, he is not G&T. I would expect to be flamed if I claimed that he was, or that just being bright was in any way a problem. It is not. I think it has to be about much more than that to cause a "special need" status.

why is being told your child sounds normal classified as "being flamed"

i would give anything for someone to describe DS as "normal"

Every child deserves to get taught to their full potential. But I don't see how any school can teach any child to their full potential in a class of 30. Whether they're superbrain, Joe average or thicky thicko.

Sorry I came across as condescending but its frustrating listenting to you moan on and on about your son not getting a suitable education thread after thread then do nothing about it. If he is getting a suitable education then stop moaning and follow his interests at home. If he isn't then sort it out.

I don't understand what the chess problem is either then? If he's accessing chess players of the same standard/being coached/whatever then I can't see the problem. Why does it matter whether he's a prodigy (awful, loaded word) or a good club player. He'll be able to get enjoyment out of it. Dh enjoys chess as a reasonable/middling club player. He thinks ds2 will enjoy it so he'll teach him. It doesn;t really matter whether he's crap or brilliant, the main thing is its enjoyable. Whether your son becomes the next kasparov or a good chess player will depend entirely on him rather than anything anyone else does or doesn't do surely.

She'll go far Rhubarb!

kerrymum did you see the programme on tv the other day about G&T children. think it was in New Zealand, there was an ice-skater, violinist and a chess champion.

But are they getting any LESS help? That's the bit I disagree with. You always seem to want MORE help than other children for your son. Why? If he is receiving a suitable education (and I repeat again that a suitable education is not defined as 'the best' - for any child) then why should he get MORE than Joe Average?

I'm still confused about the chess. Why always bring it up as an issue if he's getting sponsorship is getting coaching etc? It sounds like he's getting the help he needs.

I think that is the thing. Often it comes across that it is the parents who are driving the children not the children themselves. To my mind a G and T child will learn regardless of what the parents say or do , given the right conditions.

I had a schoolfriend who was bright, went to Oxbridge got a First etc despite changing courses half way through. Her mother encouraged her/pressured her, subscribed to the National G and T organisation on her behalf, sent her on courses etc. Could n't help thinking she was the one more driven, in order to avoid a sense of her own personal disappointment in her dd and raising the expectations. Her dd felt different at school, was teased and eventually lost it at university when she decided it was time to enjoy herself too. She would probably have been driven and successful anyway without any additional pressure at home.

But again all these children are still children. Just like I have seen people on the sn boards say thay don't want their child described as, for example, a down's child but rather a child who has down's syndrome,
I feel that there is little point in describing a child as, for example, a chess prodigy.

The needs of the child being a child are paramount, the rest of it may be particular to that particular child but the rest of the world isn't necessarily going to be as concerned/impressed as the parent.

My 15yo daughter is G&T (NAGTY top 5% nationally)but this only added to her troubles; she has depression, anorexia and severe anxiety, the latter compounded by having an extra ideal to strive to maintain. In fact I found mumsnet when searching for information/support but after reading even a very few threads within this section I was less than optimistic about making contact with parents in a similar situation.