Okay folks - I am aware that I may be opening a can of worms here but why does this topic piss so many people off?

[Theclosetpagan]

I mean if someone has deemed a child G+T (or is it G or T) why is it that they seem to be flamed when they post about any difficulties here?

If the label has come from outside the family and the family struggle why can't they post here saying "Help" without people leaping in to say "your child sounds normal to me"

For what it's worth I don't have a child labelled as G+T but am glad I don't given the response some posters get to this topic.

Surely it's okay for some children to be extra bright. Or is it that there is distrust of this label?

Just interested really.

And the deeply scary thing is that so many special schools are being closed down to save money. We are fortunate in that we still have them in our LEA, some are even residential, but we are still getting ever larger numbers of children with quite serious SEN being 'shoehorned' in to MS schools to save money.

Almost no children are being statmented duing the primary phase of education, and I'm sure that this is being linked to cost saving on the part of the LEA. So they come into seconday with no support in place at all. It is horrific.

A ago I taught a class of 16. Three were functionally illiterate, one child had EAL and two children had aultism (and are now both in special schools). I had no support in the classroom at all

"I've worked with lots of 'G and T' children, and so far I've seen 1."

It sounds to me that MB is in denial about Giftedness. If this is the sort of person that we have in charge of G&T programmes then it's no wonder that parents like KM are concerned.

Gosh, treehouse looks good- but slightly scary!

here, if kids don't cope in their placement (there are very few palces for kids with severe behavioural issues with ASD- not sure why, much like the SALT and ASD schools nto taking kids in nappies, which is why ds3 is in MN I guess- bizarre planning)- the tendency is to have them sent to residential units, I know of a few Mums who have done this, and one that is looking at it atm. that presents a very big issue ofr us if ds1 should need the behavioural support (always aware that the home issues could so easily tip into school issues) as I simply could not bear him being away from us, it wouldn't suit us as a family. Surprisingly, AS / HFA kids seem to get funded more than general ASD- not sure why, but I think there is a huge 'gap' in local provision for kids with mild to moderate needs.

No, I've worked with lots and lots of children who are called G and T, but only one was so bright that it caused him problems. Or the school problems.

they are Clever. But they re not 'gifted'

Not even the 'gifted' kids I've met working with NAGTY

Why on earth would I want to not see them if they were there?

I didn't even see them in Oxord, Edinburgh or St Andrews universities. The people there were very clever. But they were not all 'off the chart'. they were bright, but within the normal in life.

Ask gess, she'll tell you the same thing.

And Tamum

Tell you what

There are no G&T students at my Uni

(Peachy being a bit p'd off that she's at a scabby uni when she was offered bristol and couldnt afford to live there...)

Actually there is one gifted bloke at our Uni

he has the social skills of a brick, he's here because of a need to feel superior. Although taht's more because of who he is than his G&T

fembear, I've just looked at the dfes website to see how state schools identify G & T.

Giftedness is described as being significantly ahead of one's peers in one or more academic subjects.

I went to a school where every one of the 500 pupils there would have fulfilled that category.

It was a grammar school.

Mb's point is that the term is meaningless as used today. And I sgree with her completely.

I work amongst people who might be classified as G & T (not just an Oxbridge 1st but the best of the year sort of thing). They all look and act perfectly normally though they earn loads of money (unlike me).

Agree completely with MB. Even at Oxford there were very, very few people I would have called gifted. I always think you have to be cleverer to go to Cambridge, but I suspect there are very few truly gifted there either.

You're right, MB - RL did go to Israel and is now at the Einstein Insitute of Mathematics (thanks Wikipedia!). She used to come to tutorials at my college - I once saw her and her horrid father arriving on their tandem. They both got off the thing and he turned her round to fluff up her hair - she had very long rather frizzy dark hair, always worn loose - which struck me as distinctly odd. I also heard that her parents, having produced one genuine prodigy, were desperately trying to turn her sister into a musical prodigy, and that their house used to resound to the noise of her disconsolately, and unprodigiously, banging away on the piano.

I understand what MB is getting at. I would have been classed as G&T under the current scheme - but I'm not (bright yes, but not truly gifted).

I went to uni with some incredibly talented people. One friend had no formal education until aged 10 (he lived on a commune) but once the state made him go to school he had caught up within a few weeks. At uni he never studied for maths exams, even in 3rd/4th year because he could deduce everything from first princples in the exam itself. But that's fairly rare.

I certainly agree that gifted children (all children) should be given opportunities to learn. But I don't get why it is the state's responsibility to provide extra resources for gifted children. Gifted musicians and athletes are always expected to be taught outside the system (private coaches/tutors etc) so why should it be different for other subjects? (And I mean resources beyond streaming classes, the pot of money already allocated to G&T etc)

Now forgive me if I am wrng, but don't the Oxbrisge uni's look at far mroe than just educational attainment? My relation is classified as music savant with his ASD, but he didn't get a place at the last hurdle because his student profile did nto haev a sufficiently wide base.

It si by giving kids that wide base that we enable to fulfil their potential as an individual. now aprt oft hat may be attributed to an eduation- for me, being able to study has been hugely liberating as its something that was missing certainly- but a personality has a much wider profile than that. beinga ble to sustain relatinships, mange their own personal develoment, crisis survival- all equally essential skills and ones which are learned as part fo daily interaction with all sorts of people.

Should I ever have a truly G&T child I will be certainly concerned that they develop their potential- but I ike to think that will be facilitated as much by quality life experience as by anything that can happen in a school. Indeed, as ohthers say, a lot of the educational stuff will comes naturally if guided- so my inclination would be to seek out challenges ina reas where they were not so talnted (eg arts, music, sports) because it is having the wise trange of successes and struggles that rounds us as individuals.

They don't really look beyond how you're going to do on the course, tbh (with a few exceptions like medicine) but it might be that someone is brilliant in some ways but doesn't have the ability to do all aspects of the course (eg musical but can't write essays), or else is academically capable but lacks the personal skills to perform under pressure.
There's a commonly held idea that you have to have achieved in lots of areas (eg grade 8 piano as well as being good at Latin) but that's a bit of a myth.

But I agree absolutely with what you say about the importance of fulfilling potential as an individual.

RL had an older half sister who her dad tried to turn into a maths genius (he had a method) but her mum (not RL's mum) decided said father was a fruitcake and left taking half sibling with her.

According to the article I read anyway.

I think that if some oxbridge collages are presented with two equally well qualified candidates, and one is rather good at, say Rugby, it could swing things a bit! or that could be my prejudice against the Rugger Bugger types when I was there!

Oh yes, probably MB. Or being really good at rowing might help.

all the really impostant accademic stuff

The lovely Hugh Laurie rowed, didn't he?

Sadly a bit before my time I think

and stupid me! He was a cambridge chap a well

Durr

He ahd 4 a's at a-level (or maybe a stars dunno, didn't have those in my day LOL)- but sporty stuff would have been missing definitely, and anything non-academic really

having had a chat with the admissions tutor at my old collage I was told that if a child had SEN, and didn't fit the usual 'profile', the best way to get an open hearing of their application was to contact the university disabilities office before applying. And to mention this on the application.

Because of the DDA the universities have to take disabilities into account, so, for the sake of argument couldn't penalise a child with ASD for not having the 'standard' pattern of results and interests.

To stay on the right side of the law, collages have to read such applications with both care, and an open mind IYSWIM

That said, many children with 4 A grades don't get in nowerdays, the competition is very stiff, and seems harder than when I went

Ah, tehy'd have ne ver disclosed- bizarre really, she (mum, Aunt) is a LSA in a Sn school- yet her ds's asd is hush hush; partly we think to do with her focussing so heavilyty on his G&T and not seeingt eh Sn for a long time. Anyway, Mum and I think he is better off rally as he is a Russell group Uni near relations, which has to be a bonus.

It is a difficult one to decide on, were Connexions involved, and were they any help?

I've had mixed responses with them, sometimes they have been excellent in setting up the support the kids need at uni, other times not so good, all depends on the person your working with, I suppose

Sorry to but in but if G and T are the top 10% of students and Km you are saying that your ds is highly gifted what percentage would you class him to be? .. if you count the 13yr old phd student at MIT as in the top 1% or even top half a percent?
And, I wonder

Ignore the and I winder please, I was going to ask another question and changed my mind.

Another point would your child be stretched as far as you wanted if he lived in your home country of the USA. I ask this because my best friend (an American, who teaches in the states) is a GT Teacher and last year she came to visit with me from the June for a couple of weeks, (she has left her school to travel for a year and has just started in a new school this term) She was astounded what level my dd's maths homework was at compared with what her pupils were doing at the same age. DD's teacher and I went to school together as it happens, so I told DD's teacher this and she (very kindly) sent all of dd's maths books she had dome for that year home one weekend, BF was still astonished. Now ... the truth of the matter, dd is just a normal kid and she is not GT, she does well but is in no way GT.
Sorry I've rambled on and on.