Okay folks - I am aware that I may be opening a can of worms here but why does this topic piss so many people off?

[Theclosetpagan]

I mean if someone has deemed a child G+T (or is it G or T) why is it that they seem to be flamed when they post about any difficulties here?

If the label has come from outside the family and the family struggle why can't they post here saying "Help" without people leaping in to say "your child sounds normal to me"

For what it's worth I don't have a child labelled as G+T but am glad I don't given the response some posters get to this topic.

Surely it's okay for some children to be extra bright. Or is it that there is distrust of this label?

Just interested really.

Oh and apologies for the typing, for those who don't know me, I ahve poor eyesight

"I think there's a sense of exclusivity on the G&T board that doesn't recognise this at all. On the Sn board we are far more welcoming"
Eh? You seem to be constantly saying that SN should get all the help/money and G&T can ** off to the library and sort themselves out on their own. You do get exclusive when it comes to claiming resources!

Kerry - did you catch Martian Bishop's post?

The one about the truly gifted and talented child needing little?

That post really struck a chord with me.

Kerry, it is my experience that those in the bottom 10% ARE castigated etc- very much so, alienation seems to be common, especiallya s some aprents have an almost inherent feat that sn may be catching.

But in ine with my thinking over the G&T, I don't think many children- barring those with specific severe Sn- would fall into that 10% category for everything, and as such I think we need to shift focus to what a child is capable of, nto what they're not so talented at. I woudl imagine a huge percentage of the population is top 10% is something.

I willa dit to being partly biased in my views by my experiences of the sister of a friend who is truly in the Genius category, was Head of her Oxbridge Uni, barrister and now a leads a Law course at a top University etc- truly remarkable intellectually, and probably the poorest social skills I have ever encountered in an individual. Her education seemed totally focused on getting that palce at Public school, that oxbridge palce- nto her aprents who are well grounded, but teachers etc- and Ia ctually think that had they taken a step abck she'd still ahve achieved what she ahs career wise because she was always set to, but if equal attention ahd been paid to developing those skills she missed she migt have had a more universally fulfilling life (she ahs never managed to maintain a relationship, for example). Probably also my XP who is certainly G&T- scholarship at the same public school (well just happened to be local) - had somebody thought to teach him self application rather than relying on his admittedly huge but in itself insufficient intellect, he'd have made much mroe use of those things he was blessed with.

I agree with MB . The difference in terms of "need" is vast. SN children need constant specialist input, time, energy, patience , practical resources. G&T needs are more in terms of channelling and stimulating the underlying skills, interest and motivation, with adults offering guidance and opportunities. G&T children may yet succeed and fulfill their potential without this but SN children are unlikely to. That's not to say there isn't a place to discuss G and T on MN just that the posts and responses are likely to be of a different nature.

That amkes sense LIZS- there does need to be an area of MN for G&T, just I think it needs to be more accessible- I posted in the past asking for advice on ds1's areas where he is above average and was blanked, presumably not aprt of a clique. I think G&T needs to available as a wide resource, justa s (for example) a bright child with say, dyslexia / CF / hearing problems would be able to access SN i think as parents we need to be able to dip in and out of areas equally in order to get info on all the aspects of a child.

'If there were a label and a board for the bottom 10% of children in a school there would be no such castigation, ridicule, talks of exclusivity, etc. '

Kerrymum do you really think this?

No castigation and ridicule?????

are we talking about an alternate reality here.

I'm going to run a few words past you, and my profuse appologies for how vile they are, but they give a 'flavour' of what SEN kids pit up with

'retard'. 'cretin' 'Idiot' 'halfwit' 'thicko' 'sapz' 'mong'

(tying these has actually made me feel ill and I do appologise, but these are all words that I've heard children call other chilren who have SEN)

In addition, do you have any idea how many parents of children with SEN get told that 'All that child needs is a good slap'. Are you aware that mothers of children with ASD have actually be blamed for their children's SEN?????

I don't think that they two things are even remotly comprable. And if you sit and think about it, you might too.

have a clever child can be trying, but is also fun. Think how it would be if you were still trying to toilet your son at the age of 8, or were waiting for him to say his first word!

The same thing? utter bullshit!

Just to abck Up MB there, when we were with the parent support chat he ahd the Head on speakerphone- choice quote:

'There's no such thing as asd, just bad parenting'

A few years later I can't quite shift the guilt that one moments comment left me with

before you genius 7 yea old could 'design' a new pesticed, be would have to have studied basic science. All things he could do with a book and the internet.

Sceintists don't 'dream up' chemicals, they understand how they work, because they undertand the chemistry of their structures.

I know this, because I worked in medical drug reasearch, in Oxford!

you have to understand the basics first. Even if you are a genius!

You seem have very little idea of how new chemicals are developed.

Right then kerry, in that case what is different about what you said to what is adi?

I said that i supported the existence of a G&T thread but felt that it should be more open so that all parents could dip in for info on the areas that their children needed- bearing in mind that when I have posted for advice about ds1's communication talent I ahve been blanked (and after all I am hardly an unknown newbie). In much the same way, Sn has to 9and does) accept queries from people all levels of sn query- there's a good example on atm- and as such people should be able to dip in and out of the various areas that affect their kids. It's this exclusivity about G&T that gets me, not its existence- if its retained purely fro a top 10% then its not right, if its available to give toadvice to chidlren generally who ahve a G&T in any area then its very useful indeed!

After all, its a known fact for example that dyslexic kids tend to be bright: which section would they belong in? Oh yes both...

(don't fall for the ASD savant thing though, that's less than 1%)

I don't understand why the drug discovery has to be done at 7 though. Even if a 7 year old were capable of doing this, they would still be capable at 21. So not denied - merely postponed...

Well, it's just not possible, as mb says, for a 7 year old to know enough basic science to do anything remotely useful like that unless they had done a mammoth amount of specific studying. Genius alone just isn't enough, and actually I think you would have to go a very, very long way before you could no longer learn from books and the internet- it's how all scientists get their ideas after all.

And I do really hate this business of bringing up a G+T child being somehow equivalent to bringing up a child with SN.

Well, that is what I always say on these threads but am roundly ignored.

Gifted and/or talented.

You're not gifted and talented just because you're in the top 10% academically.

God, it is so unlikely a 7 year old would come up with...

There is so much basic knowledge required first.

It really doesn't work as an example I don't think.

No one thinks that, no one has ever thought that, and no one will ever think that.