Can I ask your honest opinion on selective/non-selective junior education for an academic child?

[HepburnKNotA]

It's a struggle for us to pay prep school fees but we only have one child so we can (and want to) afford it. DD's school is lovely - creative, caring, laid-back.

It is non-selective. We deliberately chose this when she was 4, despite living in an area where there are several academically-selective schools, because even though it was becoming clear she was a bright child at 3/4, I didn't like the idea of hot-housing, I liked the idea of her finding her own path, be it academic or otherwise.

The thing is, now she's 7/8, it's become pretty clear that her 'path' is a very academic one. She's easily outstripping most of her classmates, particularly in literacy/English, without ever having to even remotely try.

There are a handful of other 'academic' children in her class/year but the majority (mostly delightful kids) aren't noticeably heading in that direction. (This is NOT a value judgement btw, just a statement of fact; DH and I are both from families where high academic achievers have made terrible messes of their lives so we don't regard academic prowess as any 'better' than the opposite; it's simply quite clear to us and indeed to everyone we know that DD is a very bright child indeed.)

The point is that as entry to the school is simply by luck of the draw, no selection process, you can end up with a year group that's fairly academically-inclined, or one that mostly isn't, and in DD's case now they're in year 3 I think it's the latter. This means that the general class teaching is mostly aimed 'downwards' (they do not stream the children, though they do group them a bit on their tables) and it's hard not to feel that though we are spending a lot of money on this education, DD is only ever operating at about 30-40% of her true capacity. I don't want her stressed out and hot-housed but I would like her to be operating at more like 70%!! She is a tiny human sponge and loves to learn, is capable of HUGE amounts more.

The school has a good track record with the 11+ but it does vary by year group - some years the children go to a host of very academic schools, other years it's fewer, with more schools that aren't particularly acadmic powerhouses.

But I'm not in the 11+ zone at all yet, it's too early - right now I am more just finding it a daily frustration that DD seems so under-stretched. She's not the type of child to be 'bored' - she's too generally engaged for that - but I certainly can tell maths is particular is massively under-inspiring for her and she's losing a bit of interest.

I also worry that she is becoming totally accustomed to sheer coasting; she never has to up her game or try harder. This can't be good for the future, surely.

My question for this board is - should we be thinking about moving her to one of the more academic schools in our area, if she were able to get a place? We've missed the 7+ boat so it would be an occasional place. DD would HATE to move, which is essentially why I feel a bit trapped and unsure, because she is a sensitive child and took long enough to settle in the first place! She has friends and enjoys school - there's nothing to be gained by moving her in that sense. Basically it feels like moving isn't an option.

But we are paying so much for this and I can't help feeling like it's a waste! Maybe the school gets into gear in Year 4 and starts to challenge the most able children more - it's very hard to tell, the staff are quite cagey (perhaps because they are beseiged by parents wanting more, I don't know! We're in a very affluent area with parents who have very definite goals and as it's a non-selective school sometimes the parents' goals are at odds with what the teachers feel their children are capable of; I think this makes the teachers close off a bit.)

We do loads with DD in terms of 'extra' - museums, books, we talk about the stuff she's interested in, her history obsession etc ad nauseam - but we are never going to be the parents who sit her down with a workbook. She quite often writes her own workbooks but that's a different matter. Any attempt to formally 'educate' her ourselves ends in tears!

What would you be thinking, if you had a very bright child who was being under-challenged by her private school?

Sorry this has been long... Thank you for reading!

Sounds like you have a delightful daughter!

I would ask the current school about their G&T policy. Could she move up a year?

If you decide to move her I would still ask the new school about the said policy. I'm in the process of doing this as well - my son is 7 and in a very similar situation to your daughter, though he's currently at a state school. We haven't bothered with talking to his current school as there's only so much they can do. We're looking at transferring him to an academic independent school, but even so we'd still like to make sure he will thrive so we've asked to get us in touch with their g&t department.

Hope all goes well with your daughter. Please keep us posted!

My mum used to do cool projects with me - like look up art movements: renaissance, impressionists. Cut out some pics of their famous paintings (from postcards or leaflets), write a short paragraph about them. Quite cool if you combine it with going to museums too. Also motorcycles, space. Play board games, make her own game/choose your own adventure story.

In terms of school maybe ask if she can read an interesting book if she gets bored, or for maths, some additional problems?

It's hard because what are your options right now - would you change school to move her to a selective school? if yes, could you afford it? Would she want to move school? You sound like a pretty laid back parent, which is lovely, but how would you feel if your child was pushed academically, at the detriment of maybe creativity? would you be happy with that?

Another option is to talk to the school, obviously, that sounds like a challenge in itself. I think many parents assume that children are 'performing' at the same lever at school as they are at home, which isn't always correct. Many children will do extremely well at home, when it's quiet, one-to-one, but will not perform as well in a classroom environment.

In your case I would probably try to speak to the school again, in a positive and helpful way, and maybe focus on out-of-school activities, music, sports, creative classes, learning a second language, etc.

my DS is now 12 years old and has always gone to regular state schools, some teachers/classes have been better than others in stretching him, and like your daughter he has never complained at being 'bored'. I think he could do much more but we are very happy as a family that he doesn't get stressed about school, exams, being pushed etc. For us it was either grammar school where they focus only on academics, music services are crap, no art, little sports. So we stuck with state school so he could get a more rounded education. Only the future will tell if we have chosen the right strategy!!

Is your daughter happy at school? That would be my main driver for deciding whether the school is right. There is no need imo to over push children too early but equally it is no good if your daughter is so far ahead of her peers that she is bored. The school should be able to cater for her though.

Does she play sport? A musical instrument? Drama lessons?

My dd is at an academically selective (pushy) private secondary. For what it's worth I'm glad she had time to have fun in primary as she is working her socks off now. I would take how schools market themselves with a pinch of salt too. My state educated daughter and many of her peers were miles ahead academically of what the local preps were doing regardless of their marketing material. I think at prep level you are largely paying for extra curricular (which is generally loads better) in any event.

Your description sounds nothing like academic or non-academic school, it sounds like you're simply in a bad school, that cannot differentiate for its individual kids needs, I'd consider getting out of it for that reason alone, not that I'd go to an alternative academically pushy school.

On the general point though, academic ease means plenty of opportunity for other things, not more pushing into the narrow academic goals, ones which will be met easily anyway. So let them cruise the academic, to experience other things, learn other skills that might not be attained so easily, but might be more useful once they are older and actually know what they want to achieve.

Ours went to state primary and were fine. They had lots of additional stimulation in terms of learning outside school - French, instrumental, visits etc. Inside school they had adaptations that allowed them to work at their own level but also learnt by supporting less able peers. They learnt far more than academics and I think those non academic lessons stood them in very good stead for life.
Teach her to fail gently at things that she finds harder - needlework, craft, sports, baking.
Stretch her with piano or violin lessons.
Help her learn to be accepting not elitist.
Allow her to have fun.
Ask school about ensuring more complex reading material where the comprehension as well as the actual reading invites questions and discussion.

Ask about extension work or learning from projects where she can engage at her own level. We had rivers project with one of ours, so chose the Tamar (husband was speaking in Plymouth) and went to Devon to look at the estuary and what was happening, took the chain ferry and looked at the Brunel bridge. We went up onto Dartmoor to look at the source and splash in peaty streams. We looked at industry along the banks and visited Morwhellam. We looked at leisure activities, the Navy, pollution all,sorts. All of them learnt a lot and it was a really nice weekend away. Support in school learning with out of school activity.

Terrific advice thank you so much everyone for replying!

We do already do the sort of thing you describe Cherry with out of school activities/learning. For example she is obsessed with history and was desperate to see the Bayeaux tapestry so we planned a family holiday in Normandy to see the tapestry; same with the border castles in Wales etc. We take her to museums, Roman sites, we in fact went to Rome last year for a family wedding and got her a ‘scavenger’ hunt book so she could walk around the city finding archaeological treasures etc...

I possibly just feel frustrated that, given everything she is getting from home, feeding and stoking her passions and her thirst etc, school seem to be content to let her coast along while focussing always on the lowest side of attainment.

But I agree it’s probably not so much that a more ‘academic’ school is the solution, just perhaps a different school.

We will have to think. I do need to speak to the senior staff; her class teacher is not that interested is my feeling.

She learns an instrument and is taking up drama. We have to encourage (bribe!!!) her with sport but she has agreed to find a sporting activity as I do agree it’s vital for her to do things she’s not ‘good’ at.

School are fab on the ‘extra’ stuff - music, drama, sport, but we do still add our own stuff outside.

I suppose really It’s just baffling to me that ‘non selective’ seems to mean, more often than not in this school, ‘keep it as easy as possible.’ And I need to dig further into when/how this changes, if it does do, further up the school.

If it doesn’t then I guess we have a very difficult choice to make. Yes she is happy there (though reception and year 1 were a different story). So there is in that sense no justification to move at all. Except for the ‘grass is greener’ effect, maybe, and the fact that we are PAYING for this. I’d totally expect the ‘need’ to add more for an eager child if we were at the local primary but for the exorbitant fees (and for a school with a very good reputation) it just feels not right somehow to have such a need to add more.

Thanks so much; your advice is enormously appreciated.

Personally I feel that private primary school is pretty overpriced in general... BUT now that she is settled, do you take the risk of her moving to another place where there would be different friendship groups etc for the benefit of more money to spend on extension activities or a different private school that stretches her more? Hard one. Best situation would be talk to school and hope they manage to give her appropriate stretching. But if not, maybe move to state school and have a solid back up plan if it doesn’t work out (eg another private primary or consider home ed if you are comfortable with it)? We home ed and it is working well so far but don’t have concrete plans for future.

Happened to a family members children at a lovely prep school. They moved the child up for certain classes , 3 or 4 years where he was excelling in certain subjects but kept him with his year group for sports etc. It doesn't sound like it's a private school / state issue, more that it's just not a great school for your child's needs.

The best school in our area for gifted children is a state school. The private school just doesn't cater for them at all. Have a look at all the schools in your area and then reassess. You could put away the savings in prep school fees for University or secondary and/or more educational trips you've described as a family (which is what we do)

If she'd hate to move then it's not worth her mental health.

Don't get sucked into the 'she's coasting' worries. A bright child will be reading and learning in other ways constantly - not in the narrow repetitive curriculum of school. If you want her to not have the life problems of your gifted and talented relatives then leave her be and don't let anxiety and self-criticism in the door.

Happy is most important. The tricky thing is figuring out what will make her happy!

My DD is at a really fantastic, very selective junior school. It's not hot-housing, but they are able to move quickly through the academic work, which leaves more time for a very interesting, varied school experience. And she 'fits in' with her peer group in a way she might not have (in fact, didn't) elsewhere - which makes a happier experience for her.

You might find that your DD thrives in a different school, rather than just 'getting on' in her current school.

You say she's sensitive and struggled to settle at her existing school. Selective schools often expect - but also foster - a resilient, have-a-go attitude. If this isn't in her character, she might struggle. On the other hand, I've seen very quiet, sensitive children grow hugely in confidence once they are in an environment that suits them.

You say there are lots of schools around you. I'd go and visit some, and ask lots of questions. I'd only move her for a truly excellent school though, not merely a selective one.

My DD is at an inner city academy chain , they have a class just for high achievers, small class size, extra subjects (Mandarin, Statistics for example) This is our local school in a very deprived area so we’re lucky. I did consider grammar but could not afford it, even with a bursary.