Is my 5 year old gifted?

[SayWhatNowYall]

Confused by the whole ‘G&T’ thing, as it doesn’t seem to exist in our area. However, DS appears to be extremely bright. At 5 y/o he is free-reading, his vocabulary and communication level is (according to his teacher) university level. His general maths ability (as far as we have introduced maths) is at least y3 level, but in some aspects (e.g. conceptual understanding) is at secondary level.

He has lots of friends, is very happy at school, and fits in well. The only area he struggles with slightly is handwriting.

I’m confused about what to do about year 1. He’s spent the summer reading chapter books and doing complicated division. Although he was given higher targets in his report (which he mastered by the second week of holidays) he will go back into a phonics group (top groups) and will doing fairly basic maths (number bonds and place value, etc.) as the school doesn’t appear to allow kids to be taught above their year.

Any advice?

‘University level’ is a pointless remark, university is a huge range of people and abilities, one of mine at uni and seems to have normal speech,some of her friends just grunt🤣 very odd opinion 🙄

I've found that rather than accelerating Maths and English, it's a great opportunity to dedicate time to all the other exciting learning opportunities. My kids love doing crosswords, word search, logic puzzles, chemistry experiments (exhausting for me as it requires constant supervision but they love it), problem solving (go through the primary maths challenge puzzles), theatre, memorising poems, learning an instrument, learn to swim well, tennis, running... lots of things one can do, it sounds like his Maths & English will be advanced anyway, so rather than do GCSEs at 11, I'd just find some other topics he enjoys and immerse in those as well as doing lots of sports, which is great for confidence and social skills.

In terms of an instrument, I'd suggest piano. It gives a better sense of all parts of music and pianists are often the ones who find adapting to multiple other instruments (as their interests guide them) the easiest.

Or drums. The complexities of playing so many different components, the rhythms and cross rhythms can be an equal challenge - the physical coordination required, the effort (the level of fitness of a professional drummer is on a par with an athlete) are all good. And it has the advantage of being 'cool' and, in time, a far more social instrument, as guitarists and singers are everywhere, but everybody wants a good drummer.

Most drummers I know can also play piano and have often taught themselves, as well.

Not for now, but for the future, look at the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth. They have kids enrolled from all over the world. It is mostly used as an enrichment, not as a school replacement.

My experience is that gifted kids end up being ostracised and bullied by others through jealousy. Usually this only kicks in at secondary school - kids don’t become mean and jealous until about 12 or 13. This continues all the way into adulthood with employers who choose not to hire someone who’s obviously gifted and highly qualified, because if the person is brighter than the employer they worry about insubordination, having your own ideas and not doing what you’re told, making the boss look bad by performing too highly, being offered other opportunities so not sticking around, etc. The best thing you can do for a gifted child is teach them how to hide it and develop other non academic interests.

Being bored during phonics is fine.
It's fine till it's not fine. Very bright kids can be sitting through a lot of stuff they perceive as obvious/repetition and sometimes they get to a sticking point and have had enough. I try to help mine manage their own distractions and ways to cope with stuff they perceive as easy/dull, all kids have to deal with some stuff they find dull. But when they have tried to deal with it and are showing distress I think it's time to ask for help. They are in school to learn too, and sometimes just sitting reading a book is more learning than the lesson in hand.

Being bored during phonics isn't really fine - because boredom leads to attempts to entertain yourself.

I spent a huge amount of time in secondary school sitting at the back of the classroom drawing cartoons, staring out the window and trying not to fall asleep when I wasn't correcting the teacher's spelling and grammar. Others might be slightly more proactive in their quest for Something to Do.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions to provide new avenues of interest. He loves music and we are all very into singing as a family, so learning sheet music and maybe piano would just follow on from this.

I find it interesting that someone mentioned introducing Latin as ‘pushy’. Latin is the foundation of many of the words we use in English, and many other languages too. It’s both useful, and fascinating if you love reading (as I also do). It’s more of me sharing an interest and my own love of learning. It’s slightly depressing that showing an interest in a subject entirely accessible to most kids (if they had an interest) is seen as pushy.

I am well aware that the university comment doesn’t mean much in general, although I understand why some posters have seized on this as it’s the easiest way to make me sound like a twat. I don’t want to give the context as it’s outing, but there’s a particular subject he has a very good grasp of and can discuss in depth with the correct terminology (not parroting, but applying the knowledge to something that arises in class, like a theme in a picture book). As I mentioned these concepts and terms probably wouldn’t arise in the education system until under-grad level of a particular subject - predictably one his parent specialised in.

Some of the comments are really stupid. Children can become extremely anxious, bored and listless if they are not being challenged, Can you imagine how boring work would be if you were doing tedious admin everyday when you were capable of doing so much more.
I've known such children drop out and do nothing out of frustration. My son is a very talented artists and now does fine art for a living and earns a lot of money - all he cares about is art.
He got so bored and fed up at school he just didn't achieve anything until the art teacher agreed to take him on for extra sessions and challenge him, then he really came out of his shell and started passing general exams and so on. It was hard to keep him motivated and he needed private tutoring, but all he did from age 3 was draw.
I hope you find something for him OP.

Latin seems like a good idea to me, something they're unlikely to learn ever in state school. If it interests him why not? If you have a kid who likes academic learning the more distractions from getting even further ahead with school stuff the better. And you can send him to a church choir and confuse him with different pronunciation if the singing interest takes him!

I am well aware that the university comment doesn’t mean much in general, although I understand why some posters have seized on this as it’s the easiest way to make me sound like a twat.

Not at all OP - just the class teacher who said it sounds like a bit of a numpty (I wouldn’t call her a twat for it!)

I had to chuckle at the comment about Latin
subject entirely accessible to most kids
Where would that be?🙄

Puff I know what you mean. However if a five year old started talking about Kierkegaard and ethics when asked for thoughts on The Highway Rat during circle time (not an actual episode, but you get the gist), I think you could forgive the teacher a bit of hyperbole. It’s quite a surprising thing to encounter.

Bookworm if you can read, and have access to a Library card, you can teach yourself (or your kids) about Latin. There are even Usbourne first picture dictionaries. Lots of kid friendly material on YouTube. It really shouldn’t be an arcane subject, we use the roots of Latin all the time in every day speech.

And I mean “accessible” in terms of “can be understood by”, rather than meaning it’s available everywhere without effort.

I don’t see the practical value in learning a dead language that nobody speaks. You’d be better off teaching DC French or German so they can talk to people and live abroad if they want to.

Bizzzzy it’s massively useful as a building block for learning modern languages. And also our own, in making reasonable guesses of the meaning of new vocabulary.

OP you sound great, very switched on and in tune with your DS needs and interests.

My DH and DB were both in the G&T programmes when younger, I don't think they are truly gifted but they definitely absorb and retain information in a very impressive way.

Growing up they said they found their biggest hurdles to be people expecting too much from them or people wanting to constantly test them, they felt like some adults were trying to embarrass them. They were told they were very good and clever and wondered what would happen when they weren't good at something, would it be disappointing?

They both could be quite disruptive in class through boredom. They did a lot of learning of topics of interest to them at home, lots of physics, languages, taking things apart and putting them back together again.

DH found that he outgrew children his own age when he was quite young because he had more knowledge and found their games a bit trivial but he didn't have the emotional maturity and social awareness that comes from experience to form friendships with older children.

I'm sorry but he's five!!! I really don't need to say any more. Please just let him be five.

Mine all learned Latin in a state comprehensive but not at primary.

Thanks onward that’s kind! And yes, we don’t do the ‘testing’ thing or allow others to do it to him (unless he asks us to challenge him on something).

yeahokright but he is five, and he is allowed to be five. You might need to say more or I’m not really sure what your point is. All kids are different. His version of being five is to work out maths facts that he finds interesting, to read everything and to ask lots of questions, and talk about things he finds interesting in some depth. He also goes to lots of parties, we’ve spent most of the holidays playing outside, he has a teddy that comes most places (not school). I can promise you we’re not some strange hot-house.

My concern was if I should be saying something to the school as we head in yr1 or if there is some mysterious G&T world and I’d be letting him down if I didn’t know about it...

Mine all learned Latin in a state comprehensive but not at primary.

Ah, may depend where you are then - only the privates seem to do it here.

I think two of the local comprehensives offer it locally - but then one of those is a Catholic school.

I'm sorry but your 5 year old can not hold a conversation about Kierkegaard..
He just can't.. You may have taught him a few key facts he can trot out parrot fashion, but he has no Idea about philosophy or ethics.. Im sorry but he just doesn't.