Is my 5 year old gifted?

[SayWhatNowYall]

Confused by the whole ‘G&T’ thing, as it doesn’t seem to exist in our area. However, DS appears to be extremely bright. At 5 y/o he is free-reading, his vocabulary and communication level is (according to his teacher) university level. His general maths ability (as far as we have introduced maths) is at least y3 level, but in some aspects (e.g. conceptual understanding) is at secondary level.

He has lots of friends, is very happy at school, and fits in well. The only area he struggles with slightly is handwriting.

I’m confused about what to do about year 1. He’s spent the summer reading chapter books and doing complicated division. Although he was given higher targets in his report (which he mastered by the second week of holidays) he will go back into a phonics group (top groups) and will doing fairly basic maths (number bonds and place value, etc.) as the school doesn’t appear to allow kids to be taught above their year.

Any advice?

My DD2 was reading adult books from a very early age but her actual understanding wasn’t there, a couple of years more advanced for her age but nowhere near her actual reading level (I’m a primary teacher I tested her myself). I just let her be and allowed her to grow up and be a little girl.

His vocab and communication are university level???

😂😂😂😂😂

Right.

‘practise’ is correct, btw.

I would be careful with the Shakespeare - the themes really aren't suitable.

DC1 was like this, and read the first Harry Potter book in the summer between Reception and year 1. And then proceeded to have recurring nightmares about it through the end of the summer holidays and the first term back... Just because they can read something, doesn't mean you should let them. (eg, most newspapers would have reading age your child could decode, doesn't mean they are ready to deal with the details of murders or political issues).

Ask the school how they plan to support your DS. If they can't do a higher level, they might do greater depth, eg. my DC1 got given 3 maths sheets to do when others got 1. He was encouraged to try to beat his time doing the times tables, rather than just accept he could do them. encourage reading books aimed at children in areas he finds interesting, history, science etc.

Be careful to not treat him as a mini adult, and don't let other people do that.

Certainly sounds highly gifted. How individual school years work is very dependent on individual teachers so I wouldn't write Y1 off yet. But yes you are likely to have issues at some stage. Keep talking to teachers and keep basing it on what your child says.

Mine is much less advanced but still got to a point in year 1 where whole class phonics teaching was putting her off school altogether. We talked to the teacher, she agreed it wasn't benefitting DD and let her spend that time doing written comprehension work instead. DD happy again. We have had to be a squeaky wheel with maths too. And mediate both ways. DD isn't much of a jump through hoops child. So it's been negotiating down the amount of drudge work she has to do before she can get challenge work Vs negotiating with DD to get the drudge work done quickly and accurately so teacher can see she can do it. Writing is much easier as they can write as much and as imaginatively as they want. As I say she's not nearly as far out as your DS sounds though, so may still not be enough. I just think if they're happy don't buy trouble but be ready to investigate options if they become unhappy.

The best thing we have done though is get DD hooked on music. She can learn at her own pace, can play with older children if she needs to, and it is always challenging. And fun and even sounds nice :) Doesn't have to be music, it could be coding or something else too, but having an area of study that doesn't impinge too much on school but still teaches them to challenge themselves and work to overcome difficulty is a huge asset.

(For holiday fun, has your DS discovered murderous maths books yet? Good for both the reading and maths interests!)

Theunrivalled the “university level” was the teacher’s assessment, not mine.

Practice is the correct spelling when being used as a noun, i.e. the concept of practice, or a ‘particular’ practice, but thanks.

I have a bright DS, not like yours I don’t think but found school easy. I’d suggest learning a musical instrument. Nobody can just play to a high level without hard work so it’s great for teaching perseverance and that has been useful as ds got older and work became more challenging- and as a bonus he’s a pretty good musician now

Instrument is a great idea, along with learning to read music. He’d love that.

‘The need to practise’ - ‘practise’ is a verb here, not a noun. Hence the spelling. Anyway, sorry, didn’t mean to derail your thread.

Just be careful. Realising that you are classed as some kind of genius and that everyone is holding their breath expecting great things from you is an incredible amount of pressure.

I speak from personal experience, it didn't end well for me.

Can you afford to send him to a private school?
The private schools I know have gifted and talented programs for children like your son. The dramatically smaller class sizes mean he’d have more attention and they don’t have to stick to the national curriculum as tightly.

Just keep him occupied at home at his level. I was gifted at reading. In reception I was was out reading the year 6 children and was reading my mums books. My mum and a few of my teachers just kept gently encouraging it and giving me more and more books to read while keeping everything else very normal.

(And only as you did bring it up, "the need to practise" is a verb form of practise so s - you could say "the need for practice" as then it would be being used as a noun. If in doubt try substituting other nouns. The need to think, the need for thought.)

(sorry, not only pedantic about grammar, also very slow, please ignore)

One of mine is like this, OP. I'd suggest making sure you find the best match between child and school. We were fortunate in that my DC has always been to schools which were happy to give him academic work that was at the right level for him (all independent schools). However... he was also diagnosed with AS when he was in Year 3, so don't rule this kind of thing out. Not that it makes a massive difference to anything, as your DS is still your DS, whatever label anyone puts on him. Agree with the PP who suggested learning an instrument, if your DS shows any signs of musicality.

Do nothing, let him be a kid. No 5 year old is at university level, that's simply delusional. Let him play with toys like Lego, introduce him to a wide number of interests but do not push, there's far more to growing up and school than just maths and English. My dd is super smart, she was like your son but fast forward the clock (she's at university) and her happiness is what's important, the g&t scheme meant she did a few special trips and took sats early but we chose not to put her ahead a year because she needed social skills more. I've met so many hot housed kids through music where it goes terribly wrong, just enhance his current education with extra curricular rather than pushing him ahead

Mine were not on the autistic spectrum. Far from it. You can be ordinary and very bright. Mine did normal state primaries, which are often much better than independents at managing exception.

Being bored during phonics is fine.they can help others and learn so much from doing so. They can let that astounding imagination flit all over the place.
Ours all developed imaginary friends and whole imaginary parallel universes (as many very bright children do). It made travel difficult because we had to be careful not to sit on them or leave them at home but they provided a wonderfully creative outlet for those bored moments.
Violin was good from a very early age as you could get quarter size instruments. It also trains the ear. The downside is it sounds awful for a good few years. Music theory was brilliant for a ‘stretch’ and supported maths learning. Ours started at a free music centre and had free lessons through the local authority music service. One still plays violin and viola. The others changed instruments, but can all play piano quite well which is good socially.
They continue to be curious and enjoy learning. One is currently learning Dutch to broaden her options post Brexit. One is based in Middle East at the moment and teaching himself Arabic. The youngest has four languages she is fairly fluent in and is building up technical vocabulary around financial systems through an internship.

I really do think they need opportunities to learn - we were lucky with my husband’s job at the time and had days out or short breaks which were always ‘educational’ tracking the path of water from it’s source on Dartmoor down along the River Tamar to the sea, looking at the uses of the river, the effects of the river on the environment and river crossings. Our son became interested in Brunel from that little sojourn and it fired off other activities.
What they don’t need is force feeding to exam results with reading and maths levels becoming the focus and with no teacher being good enough.

Another one coming on to say learning a musical instrument could be a fantastic way to extend him. I’m a primary school teacher and he certainly sounds very bright indeed. I would definitely speak to the school as well with your concerns but be very clear you want to work with them not against them.

Another thing could be a language - maybe a private language tutor ? Days out to interesting places / exhibitions / museums and books books books. Mini projects you do together . Documentaries on you tube. Something like tennis is great for co-ordination if this is something he struggles with.

Thanks for the practise/practice usage lesson 😄 I was very tired when I posted (I’m also not ‘gifted’ myself, more to the pity 😂)

We’ve begun looking at Latin, but a modern language is a really good idea, as is an instrument. Anything that ‘feeds’ that curiosity to learn.

I have no intention or interest in ‘pushing’ him within the academic system. I’m already a bit concerned that he’s starting to get singled out publicly for particular praise at school, where one of his siblings still goes.

I’m aware private isn’t always better than state, and our school is excellent. We could afford it, but he’s very happy where he is and the supportive environment is important. I wonder if secondary is where we should be open to private.

Scholarships to top schools have been mentioned already by some 🤦🏼‍♀️ I don’t know anything about the process or whether such a move would actually be negative. DH and I are highly educated and successful, but came through the state system, so we don’t have that “old boys” nod and wink that so many privately educated people we know seem to have...

Do nothing, it means nothing. I was like this at 5. I was slightly above average at 11. Some children just develop faster than others. It doesn't mean as an teenager they're going to be better or worse than their peers. Just make sure he's got enough to do to keep from being bored. Plenty of books etc and leave it. Otherwise you might find you've got a teenager who crumbles mentally speaking, as so much was expected of them, when really- it was just a matter of faster development

his vocabulary and communication level is (according to his teacher) university level.

Sorry I couldn’t bring myself to read past this sentence...

puffhuffle why? It’s his teacher’s comment, not mine. I include it as this is the kind of school feedback he’s getting. She was primarily referring to his vocabulary - we are a fairly academic house and he’s always been surrounded by discussions of books, plays, politics. He’s absorbed (some) ideas and terminology he probably wouldn’t naturally come across again until under-grad level. I don’t think it’s that far fetched?

I recommend extra curricular activities such as music and foreign languages too OP. I think that its good of you to be looking into what you can do for your child. I do not agree with others saying do nothing, because that does not work for some children either. They basically learn that they do not need to work hard or put effort in through school. It can lead to chatting and disruptions in class. When the real challenges come later they can crack too. Of course this does not happen to everyone but doing nothing is not an option.

You can also try schlorlarships and the Independent/private route. With small classes they can cater for your child's needs.

Because ‘university level vocabulary’ sounds like a nonsense throwaway comment - it isn’t a thing. How Is that measured? What kind of words does that include? Do people at university have a special vocabulary to everyone else? Or does it actually just mean ‘he uses a few fancy words and phrases’ - which aren’t actually exclusive to university students. If my DCs teacher spouted such nonsense I wouldn’t have much faith in them tbh.

Bear in mind up to now he’s been mainly in the company of adults as he progresses at school his interests will change in common with other kids. You say you’re not pushy but considering Latin? If you make everything about his intelligence he will end up alienated at school by kids & parents alike ( please don’t talk like this to other parents)
Relax, let him be a child, he doesn’t need to be learning all the time.
How much time does he spend outdoors as opposed to ‘watching lots of Netflix’?