Very Spiky WISC - Poss 2e?

[artichaut27]

I've been on a one year journey in getting my DS1 age 7 fully diagnosed.

I've always known that he learned very differently and that he is very visual and creative. He is a very lateral thinker.

He was diagnosed with DCD by OT and physio last year. His handwriting is legible but his written production is below average.

He's always described by teachers and tutors as creative and very bright.

He did his cognitive assessment recently and the Ed Psych (very experienced) was pretty perplexed by his unusually spiky profile. Scores range from 5th percentile in Coding to 98th percentile in Block Design. Two other spikes are 95th on VR and 91th on Picture Concept. He bombed Matrix because he has dyslexic tendencies and probably reserves the images.

She says he has clear auditory processing weaknesses and a slow speed of processing.

However, she is very puzzled that he did that well on Block design. She finds it unusual for a DCD child as it involves manual dexterity.

My DS1 built big boxes of Lego on his own at age 4. He also builds very tricky meccano now. I never would have known he had DCD if it weren't for his hand-writing and Speech issues.

Anyone with very visual and creative child with a LD?

Has anyone got Torrance test done?

DCD does not always equal abysmal fine motor skills- he may be within 1SD below average? Below 5th percentile on motor assessment is considered a significant difficulty requiring intervention.

Block design is about mental manipulation as well as physical manipulation of the shapes; if he had above average competency in mental manipulation, it may be enough to compensate for any motor deficiency.
Overall, was there a discrepancy between verbal IQ and performance IQ? That tends to be the typical picture for children with DCD.
Spiky profile is typical of DCD.

WRT meccano- can he generate novel pieces to his own design or does he tend to make up the models according to instructions?

Thanks DuchessDumbarton

That's very useful. DS1 scored 2 percentile at ABC movement and his fine motor skills when tested weren't fantastic.

I know he can really manipulate shapes in his head fast. Watching him when he was little building Lego sets was like watching my nan do crochet, pretty surreal.

He's not building his own models out of meccano yet. Lego dominates our world.

Playing Charade with him is a massive cause for hilarity in our family as he just won't mime what's on the card, but the story he has made up.

As to WISC, he scored 95 at Similarities but overall Verbal was 86
Processing speed 16 percentile, Perceptual Reasoning 92, Working memory 42.

Ah, 2nd percentile is quite weak and 2SD below mean.

So, with Lego, is he creating- or building it "right". Just wondering if her needs to stick to the "rules" as he sees it or is his thinking flexible.
And, if not, then that's something that you can work on with him.

WISC profile is quite spikey.
Processing speed would be the main concern....with that intellect, he will need to be overtly taught to stop and think through what needs to happen next. So, give himself mental space to problem solve.

What is your main concern for him?

His thinking is very flexible. He's been building fantastic little machines since he's 4: tiny, compact and well-designed jetpacks or mini-vehicles for his characters.

We have a rule at home, if we buy a Lego set, they have to build the set and then smash it to improve or change it. Otherwise, we're better off buying bricks by the bag (which we do too).

I just wonder why his profile is so spiky and how we will be able to help him long term.

His mind works fast and well in his strengths but slow and frustrating elsewhere. I can see how his auditory sequencing problems will be a problem when he will need to multitask.

He has been accepted 'as seen' (without the WISC) in our local independent School and the SENCO (who sat with him at entrance exam) seems really receptive. But it remains a very academic place. I wouldn't want him to feel like the least clever boy in his class, because he won't be as fast on mental maths as his friends or because his written production won't match his imagination.

We chose the school mainly because they have a great D&T department and a great art studio.

For now, he seems very comfortable and happy with himself. He takes pride in being 'different'. We are all a bit quirky in our family, so he sees that it's ok.

I hope he will find peers who will be as excited about Visual Spatial stuff and who are quirky as he is, so he feels at home.

Ed Psych wrote that his needs are complex and gave all kinds of recommendations. She also recommended some good books to read.

Yes, this is absolutely a 2e profile.

From what I've read about the Torrance tests they're not that reliable.

The FSIQ should be classed "not interpretable" and de-emphasised or omitted. The most useful numbers will be GAI (general ability index) which will be similar to the PRI in the low 120's or mildly gifted range; and the CPI (cognitive proficiency index) which will be below 100. The general ability index is the best guide to his reasoning ability and potential. If GAI has been excluded from the report you should ask for a revised report to include it.
the spread between the 4 composite indices is ~35 points and the spread in the subtest scores is 11 points. The GAI and PRI >=120 together with the dyspraxia diagnosis, firmly indicate 2e.

On a side note, those look like WISC-IV numbers which means the ed psych is using an out of date test (The wisc-v has been out for 3 years), which is not good practice.

If the report doesn't include the following points, consider discussing them with the school:

2e kids benefit most from the primary focus being on their strengths, to promote engagement and self-esteem, then a secondary focus on their difficulties.

avoid heavily timed tasks, particularly mad minute maths

allow 25% extra time in tests/exams

encourage/teach touch-typing and allow him to type longer written work. Incorporate other assistive technology as necessary.

Set a reduced volume but high level of work, e.g. if the standard task is 10 maths questions, allow him only to do the 5 most difficult.

He would probably enjoy chess.

Helpful resources:

Belin bank center 2e packet of information for professionals

davidson institute 2e guide

book: Creating Effective Programs for Gifted Students with Learning Disabilities

2e newsletter

a nice paper - the two-edged sword of compensation: how the gifted cope with learning disabilities

the previous labour government's 2e guidance (not current policy but vastly superior to anything produced since)

Davidson institute 2e forum

Thank you so much extrastrongmints This is extremely useful.

We live in Devon and the Ed Psych is the best rated in the region, and the one recommended by the new school. It was easiest option for us in many ways and she had a great rapport with my kooky DS1.

However, I know the report was a bit old school and she wouldn't commit on the 2e. She mentioned pockets of 'giftedness' in our chat after the test, but didn't reflect this in her report. She did a good job at collating all the professional reports so far. She drew a good picture of him because she understood that this was very important to me. You're right I'll ask for a GAI.

See, my DS2 just turned 5, looks like an average G&T (nothing exceptional, probably around 130-135), very homogenous. He's good all around, and acts out in reception because 'everything is easy'. He is a very auditory learner, so life at school is a breeze.

In contrast, I've always known that my DS1 with all his quirks is the typical Visual Spatial learner coined by Linda Silverman. Linda Silverman also says that gifted creative children are usually in the 120 range. For some reason, this is where they work best.

It's funny what you say about chess. My younger sister was gifted 'just' at chess. She started playing at age 4, won first competition at 5 and was champion of France at age 8. Her Elo is in the 99 percentile. However, she never really did that well at school and she had attention issues, but she could play chess for hours in hyper-focus mode.

The Ed Psych said my DS1 really hated the timer, which I had warned her. So your suggestions about Mad Minute Maths and timed tasks are spot on.

Many thanks also for the reading recommendations that will keep me busy for a while.

My son also did very poorly with coding. We later learnt he had binocular vision, had vision therapy and is fine now (he was also suspected DCD, difficulty writing etc). He was an amazing reader fyi, so just because a kid seems like a visual learner does not mean vision is ok. A gifted child will find a way around and hide their diffuculties. Binocular vision it convergence insufficiency must be diagnosed by a behavioural optometrist fyi.

As you are in Devon I would highly recommend an assessment with Rachel Schumacher at the Apricot Clinic. She has haloed both my son's.

thanks a lot for the suggestion Smith888 I wasn't aware of the Apricot Clinic. I'll check them out!