How can we help DS not suffer at nursery?

[IsThisYourSanderling]

Ok at the risk of setting myself up for ridicule, I'm getting worried about how DS is going to cope with nursery, and I'm wondering how we can help him beyond what we're already doing.

I'm posting in here because his abilities are probably relevant and tied into areas where he struggles. He's 2.8 years old and we think he's twice exceptional (he's getting referred for dyspraxia assessment as soon as he's old enough, has sensory issues, and seems unusually bright - he is starting to read and decode words, and his numeracy is about level with a five year old according to the EYFS framework - counts in tens and twos, recognises numbers to 100, always doing basic sums up to 20: he loves numbers and letters so much, and always has).

Socially he's hopeless and not interested at all. He's very uncomfortable around children his own age. I take him to a regular toddler group, a regular class, and have regular play dates. He's particularly stressed out by the toddler group, which is the environment closest to how nursery will be: same age kids free playing and doing crafts, eating together etc. He gets overwhelmed by the noise, the environment just exhausts him and he's wiped after 90 minutes of it. He's calmer at play dates but won't actually engage with the other child/ren or their parents, just hovers around the edge and takes himself off to read when he's tired of it (I leave him to it, as I don't feel
Forcing him back out and causing a tantrum would be helpful. He comes back out in his own time). He doesn't play the same way as other children- no interest in cars, dolls, toy kitchens, real-life sort of play. Though he can play imaginatively, but it's more dragons and dinosaurs; he's never made me a pizza in his toy oven or bought anything from my 'shop'

This is possibly screaming ASD at some people, but I don't feel he is, and neither does our HV.

Anyway, I feel like he's not just going to dislike nursery, but really suffer there, unless we somehow help him. I wish we had an outdoor nursery or Montessori nearby but we don't. Our school nursery has one forest day, but the rest are all in the standard room full of kids playing, and he seems to find this sort of environment genuinely stressful.

Any tips?

Oh, and btw I do fully expect mentions if ASD to come up in the future and I'm not ruling it out or anything, I'm not an expert.

Also I hope I don't annoy people by posting in G&T, trying not to stealth brag but it probably comes across like I am. Perhaps the literacy/numeracy stuff isn't even relevant, but it's just such a large part of who he is. Please be gentle

Try nursery. It might be ok, he might settle better than you expect. If he doesn't, then re-think. What are your other options? Childminder? Family nearby? P/t hours? He's only little. Try it, and if it doesn't work, then think again. Any decision or plan you make now doesn't have to be forever. And remember, like all children, his preferences/needs/abilities will change.

Childminder, definitely. DD wouldn’t have coped with nursery at all, she didn’t like children her own age.

Agree - try it, but if it doesn't work, then just take him out?

By the time he's school age, he will be older and more able to rationalise how to cope socially. School, even Reception, will have more structure.

Hyperlexia?

I think a nursery would be a good option to help his social skills and learn the routine. I think he might be bored with a childminder tbh

A friend of mine’s DS was just like this. The HV/GP thought he was ASD and my friend was convinced he wasn’t. She did her own research and stuck to her guns. Eventually he was diagnosed with Hyperlexia. It’s a little-known condition that often gets confused with being ASD, but isn’t part of the spectrum. Have a google for the basics, I just thought it was worth mentioning in case it helps. She tried him with nursery and they couldn’t keep up with his needs, but when he was a little older it worked better, before he started school

Cross post jollyoh!

I wouldn't send him to nursery tbh.

It just sounds like it's totally unsuitable for him at the moment. Square peg/round hole.

I would look at childminder or nanny or just keep him home of possible.

I'd also stop going to the playgroup every week if he hates it!

Hyperlexia is commonly linked to ASD.
csld.org/hyperlexia

Nurseries are set up for all chilldren I think you should try him even if it is for a term or two then maybe try a childminder ime all types of toddlers can benefit from the play aspect of a nursery.

Yes, different types (3 I believe?) which can be linked to ASD, but it is a separate syndrome and can stand alone from ASD. It wasn’t linked to ASD with my friend’s child

It doesn't read like a brag at all. You sound lovely and honest.
Does he have to go to nursery now? I know some kind of pre-school environment is good before school, but a year is plenty in my opinion. Plus it might be best to do just mornings or afternoons rather than full days.

I put my (similar sounding) ds in nursery at 4, as he 'needed be ready for school' and 'had to get used to being away from me before school'. He was really unhappy and I wish we hadn't. He coped OK with school, as it was much more structured (though he'd have done better at a more structured school), but the free flow of nursery was really not a good match for him.

Are you talking about a commercial nursery which offers the 15 hours of childcare? Or full time nursery as in 5 days a week from 8am to 6pm?

In my experience, you might be better off looking for a school-based nursery. They normally have the school SENDCO to coordinate with special needs. They can also be more geared up for children with a variety of needs, both of higher ability and struggling with behavour. Many nurseries will have quiet corners. Some will have a tent, or safe space for children who want to play or read quietly. I would say, shop around and don't be nervous about it.

If he’s 2.8 then will he be 3 in September?

If so then he won’t be starting school until September 2021. So I would not even think about nursery at the moment. He’ll get his free hours in January but that doesn’t mean you have to use them. I’d look at starting him maybe one or two mornings a week after next Easter and then a bit more from September. He’ll be very different 16 months from now.

If he’s an August birthday then I guess this is all a bit harder.

Our DS was so like this and I regret sending him to nursery. He was miserable and they kept trying to get him to play like other children . It just didn’t suit him at all .

It has got so much easier as other children have caught up verbally (He’s 8 now) so he enjoys interactions much more and has lots of friends I once worried he might not. I just wish I hadn’t forced him to try nursery for a whole term and they would not understand him or how his motivations and interests were just not suited to nursery

I agree with ‘leeloo1* that the stronger structure of school can be helpful

Oh thanks everybody for these replies, I fully expected to be told that he needs to be made to go for the socialisation, and that he'll be completely different within a few months so will be fine.

For clarity, I'm talking about school nursery when he's 3, not childcare. Thankfully he's a September birthday, so nursery would start in January, and we applied assuming he'd be more confident by then - but his social skills haven't improved one bit in the last five months, and I'm now thinking that it might be years, not months, before we see any real progress there. I posted this thread hoping vaguely that someone would give me a magic formula for helping to prepare him, and I'm actually really relieved by some of the responses telling me to chill out and not send him if he's not ready.

Leeloo and Building, thanks for sharing. Did you send your DCs back to nursery before school, or just wait to go straight from home to school once you'd pulled them out of nursery initially? And they settled ok? It's really encouraging to hear that friendships naturally developed as they got older.

It feels like a bit of a double bind, because if he has poor social skills, he's going to fall even further behind other kids if they're all getting practice at nursery and he's not going. On the other hand, sending him when he's just going to be miserable and anxious isn't going to help socialise him either. So it's hard to know what to do.

And yes, we do think he has hyperlexia. I didn't mention it in my OP as I didn't think anyone would know what I was on about. I didn't know it was diagnosed in the UK tbh, most of what I read about it is American.

My ds finished the year at the (sure start) nursery - though he was only doing 2 days pw and 1 day they had an artist-in-residence, who he adored and basically spent the day working with. My ds is/was fine socialising with adults, but found children much harder to fathom. He didn't make friends during his time there and didn't really until y1 when I organised a series of playdates - although this didn't translate to the child being a friend in school and he'd still rather read than socialise. He's currently being assessed for high functioning asd (at 11 years) mainly due to his issues socialising...

It's v hard to know what to do for the best, as sometimes forcing kids out of their comfort zones really pushes them to succeed - eg give them a sneaky push down a big slide and they realise they love it and keep going by themself, or if not you pick up the pieces and either way it's an obvious win/lose. With something huge like nursery, you have to assume your ds will be the same as he is at home, except the staff may not have the space/expertise to allow him to retreat with a book. Or it may not be practical/permissable for him to do that when it's snack/circle/carpet time. They'll be doing basic maths etc which won't challenge him and may well bore him senseless.

So unless you need the childcare then I'd say don't send him, as I wish I hadn't. At the time everyone was telling me it was my issue - I needed to cut the apron strings a little etc, but my son would have been a lit happier at home with me, then staggering starting school.

Sorry, that last paragraph makes no sense. I mean I think my ds would have been far happier not doing nursery and then having a staggered /managed start to attending school.

2.8 year olds don't generally play with other children so i would not worry about that. But does he have to go to nursery? It sounds like noise and general hubbub will be too much if he can only deal with being in an environment with other kids for 90 mins?

Have you thought about a Montessori playschool? I knew dd wouldn't cope in an ordinary playschool but Montessori was a lot calmer. She had undiagnosed ASD and is G&T.

If it’s school nursery and you’ve already applied for a place for him but he won’t start until January, I’d do nothing about it yet. Wait until some point in the Autumn term and ask to meet with the nursery teacher and explain everything you’ve told us. If possible, have him/her meet your DS.

You will soon know from that teacher’s reaction how well or otherwise the nursery is likely to cope with him, and you can decide at that point whether to send him or pull him out. You might be lucky and he will be ‘understood’, and they will make sure he can participate in the group activities in his own way without pressure, and give him access to a quieter space where he can read.

Sounds very similar to DD at this kind of age, from the reading to the dyspraxia to the hatred of playgroups - and it took me ages to work it out, but what actually bothered her most was the noise levels, which so overwhelmed her that she couldn't even interact with toys, never mind other children.

What worked for her was a childminder, along with short half days at a Montessori nursery which was amazingly calm, and had great staff who worked with her at her own level. She also enjoyed one on one playdates with another similar child.

DD was also an early reader, but that doesn't have to mean hyperlexia, some children just do. (We went through the ASD/not ASD loop a couple of times but have now totally discounted it) Her reading age has stayed ahead of her chronological age ever since. She's also now at a selective secondary and has loads of friends and is the life and soul of her class.

Ah, if you’re talking about pre school and not childcare I think you’ll get a feel for which ones will be a better fit for DS when you look round. DD’s pre-school has free access to the outdoors all day, so there wasn’t that pressure cooker environment of a load of kids in a room at once, IYSWIM.