LO struggling at nursery :(

[Rixera]

My daughter is 3 years old and started at nursery in September. She has been looking forward to it since she could walk, and would see the building on our walks and ask to go!

However, she now comes home sombre and quiet. She says it is stressful, as the children are too loud, they snatch things, and she would rather play alone.

I can see what she means- she has never hit or snatched other children even when she was tiny and instead resolves issues diplomatically, which doesn't work when other children are more typically boisterous, as per their age group. She holds intelligent, adult-like conversation, which they don't understand; she keeps up with politics with me for eg, she enjoys wordplay, making puns, playing with rhyme & metaphor for humour (as well as the endless poop jokes, she is still 3.)

She is very advanced, I struggle to keep up with her at home; she already grasps the concept of light refraction, categorises her toy dinosaurs & animals as bipeds or quadrupeds, can count to 20+ recognising numbers up to 100, do simple mathematics, copied the shape of chords on her toy piano at home after seeing her grandfather play his once, and was disappointed it only played one key at a time... But she is really sociable. She loves making friends and loved events with other children such as at the childminders, or playgroups. Everybody got on well with her, but that was in a mix of ages, and she always played best with children a year or two older than herself as they played in the same way. Now, she is struggling and I don't know what to do about it.

I am a student parent, I will be starting uni next year & currently on pre uni course so can't home educate, and I do want her to learn social skills, but I want to be able to support her as it's sad seeing her come home from nursery visibly morose and saying she's stressed. Does anyone have any advice?

Is she on the autism pathway? If not I would visit your GP.

Bloody hell shes cleverer than most people I know. Would a childminder work better for her? Small group numbers and a different age range?

It's just too early isn't it, if she can't deal with other tinies? Or maybe a childminder might be better, as there would be fewer children and more interaction with the adult.. childminders are checked, vetted and registered by Ofsted. They have to supply toys and activities in the same way as a nursery, and to the same standard.

Maybe a nanny that is experienced with very bright children?

She sounds like a lovely normal 3 year old who is not used to a busy environment - nursery is presumably to get her used to sharing her space and toys. I would just keep going it does take time - although you can alter her hours depending on your studies so she has lots of quiet / one on one time in the week too.
Prefering older children is normal when children haven't spent much time with their peers. I expect she will be settled and as noisy as the rest by Christmas.

I think a child minder is the way to go. She sounds like how my older sister was as a 3 year old. There’s Big age gap between us as my mum went on to have my brother then me when my sister was 14,16. Mum tells me stories about her, she used to say my mum was embarrassing, and told her off for eating with her mouth open. My sister is most responsible grown up I know. Alot of what she and my mum talk about ie French revolution, politics go over my head though...Mum said she took my sister out of nursery for similar reasons. I wasn’t the same, I went to nursery as did my brother. My mums always said I’m not like her lol.

Why is a poster suggesting anything about the autism pathway? As far as I am aware, the OP has mentioned nothing to suggest this may be the issue.
Anyway, yes- it sounds like the setting might be a bit busy for her. If the staff are worth their salt, they should be planning for her so that they can meet her needs effectively. Have you had much interaction with them yet, OP? Maybe arrange a chat and tell them your concerns- they should be more than happy to hear them and put some provision in place that challenges her and encourages her to feel a bit more at home.

Good luck

She does go to a childminders two mornings a week and has done since she was 18mos (I have no family support so they are my lifeline!)

But, she is only available 3 days a week as she works elsewhere Thurs & Fri. I almost wish I'd placed her somewhere else because of this conflict but 2 years ago I didn't realise this would be an issue and now she's attached, lol. I don't want to break that bond, as she really only has me & my partner/her father and the cm as her key attachment figures.

I have not considered autism, do you think it might apply?

Don't worry about her being autistic just because she finds nursery overwhelming, noisy and boring.
Can you find another CM she could go to full-time?

Do you have a Montessori near you? That sounds like a better environment. They provide education at her pace so she won’t be bored. They teach respectful behaviour in children and it’s much quieter/calmer.

If you have never seen a single behaviour that raises a red flag for autism then it’s unlikely to be that. Of course you should go through some checklists and see if there are any concerns and have them looked at by a professional, however you should also be aware of the way giftedness can present in a similar manner to ASD. Misdiagnosis of gifted children is a problem. Do your reading and when you take her for an assessment, whether that’s for giftedness, ASD, both, or something else, make sure you see someone who understands giftedness, or misdiagnosis is a big possibility.

A normal nursery/school can be quite damaging for these kids. A lot of people look into early school entry. Kids like this often do better with older children so maybe they can move her around at her nursery if that’s an option. There are preschool programs for gifted children so that might be worth looking into though they’re hard to find.

Why is a poster suggesting anything about the autism pathway? As far as I am aware, the OP has mentioned nothing to suggest this may be the issue.
Because the op could have been describing my now teenage daughter age 3.
Highly intelligent , discussed adult topics, played with children older than herself, dislike of noisy environments .
Appeared sociable but struggled with friendships within her direct peer group.

Obviously you can have all those characteristics and not have an asd. However if it was my child I would check it out.

My ds hated some of nursery, and I’m afraid some of school too. His way of interacting just wasn’t in tune with the way other children were. He basically had to wait until they grew up a bit.

Some exposure to it was helpful, but he never really acclimatised, and it was horrible to watch him just suffering day after day just dumped into it without strategies to help or relief in the way of gaps to recover.

If I could do it again I wouldn’t believe anyone who tries to tell you that your little one should just be left to suffer through it for years as some kind of forced acclimatisation (or punishment for being different humm).

I would have pulled ds out of nursery or found one that acknowledged how difficult he found the socialisation and helped him a lot more. It was difficult because his nursery didn’t know how to handle it... he wasn’t classified as having special needs, as that was considered to be about being behind, rather than in front in any way, so he was just left. You could argue he was lacking, but our local nursery, although supposedly outstanding, was lacking themselves in this area.

By 6-7yrs DS was more in sync with other children and blossomed socially, finally being able to make the most of play times. Before that, DS found socialising was easiest when doing a project together, rather than just running around and free play. Because reception year was cantered around free play a lot, he actually enjoyed yr1 more.

She sounds lovely and gifted. I would definitely find another setting. Being miserable and among kids she is clearly intimidated by and can't connect with isn't going to teach her social skills. Interaction with older kids and adults can still do that.
Btw if she likes the piano, 3 isn't too young to start (a bright and mature 3 that is), could granddad teach her the basics in a low-key way?

@Broken11Girl I would love her to have piano lessons, she is very musically talented, making up songs that actually sound like songs to an adult too and has had a sense of rhythm since before she was born!

Unfortunately FIL has absolutely no interest in teaching her, or really interacting with her. I want to scrap together the money for a piano and lessons because she could remember the shapes of chords the next day, having seen him play once in her life, for approx. 10 minutes.

@everyone else, thank you for the comments, I have a lot to think about! I will look into Montessori nurseries more as the little I have read sounds brilliant but do they tend to offer state-funded places at all? We are young parents- one student, one slightly above minimum wage earner- so funds are limited, lol.

Aw no, I'm sorry. Tbh maybe family members teaching music isn't a good idea, just like driving You can get cheap digital pianos that aren't awful, and maybe find an older teen or young adult willing to teach cheaply, obviously you can post on the extracurricular board for advice on choosing a piano and teacher...I'm jealous of her being able to remember chords from seeing them once and I'm in my 30s and play at grade 5 level Anyway sidetrack but I think we'll be hearing great things from her!

Have you spoken to the staff at the nursery? They might have some useful observations to make, and I'm sure they would listen to your concerns and try to help her, whether it's by keeping noise down in the area of the room she's in, or selecting a particular child that they think might click with her and encouraging them to play together.

I think you can work with the nursery on this one. It's pretty full on in Reception too, so it'd do her good to get used to this type of environment.

It might help if the nursery staff are able to include her in some structured activities with just a small group of children.

The closer supervision would cut down on some of noise and the more boisterous behaviours of the other children, and also help to support DD in mixing more with the others. Depending on the activity, it could be a useful opportunity for the staff to give DD more of a challenge by taking the activity to a higher level.

Another possible solution to the general noise levels could be a set of ear defenders to help filter out some of the noise.

If piano lessons are a no-go and your own ears can take the initial pain, the recorder is a cheap and useful first instrument. My DD is older now but has an Usborne recorder book which teaches the basics, including how to read music.

@LetItGoToRuin, I will be speaking to her key person tomorrow when I pick up (cm picking up today). Tbh it was only this week that she identified the issue and told me she didn't like it there any more, the rest of the time I just thought she was droopy because she was tired :(

I've suggested to her that she try to pick a child that is quiet too to be a 'quiet buddy', but she says there aren't any. I've checked in with staff just casually about how she's getting on, and they say she goes quiet whenever other children try to get involved in her games, but that it's 'early days'. I am sure it is but I feel so sad to watch her go from this buoyant excitement at the idea of nursery to eyes filling with tears when I say it's time to go.

@MyDcAreMarvel; I haven't noticed any other signs apart from rocking. She doesn't do it sitting on the floor/ a child size chair, but she rocks whenever sitting on the sofa, armchair, dining chairs or in bed. She says she does it because 'it's just nice' but can get distressed if you try to get her to stop. If she's eating, she'll stop to put a bite in, then carry on.

@Doobydoobeedoo she has a recorder and does quite well on it, but the sound is horrific! And I don't know how to read music so not much I can teach her, though she can do some little tunes on it :')

The nursery don't do a lot of structured activities, which might be part of the problem. The ones they do she very much enjoys, but the 'learning through play' offers almost too much flexibility for her. I can't blame her, we live opposite and I can hear the screaming and roaring as I type...

Like some pp says, speak to the nursery stuff if they can do some activity with her.
My ds's nursery did a lot of small group activity for my ds, with slightly more mature children.
And agree, reception would be similar, so it could be a good preparation.

DS1 wears ear defenders in noisy situations at school - you could try this? He's like your daughter, as was I. We're looking at getting him assessed for ASD.

I think also a Montessori nursery sounds like it would suit her. I would ask the LEA if they know of any state funded ones in your area. (I don't know if they do have lists). If they are only for better off parents, it would be a shame, as Maria Montessori developed the method to provide good education for children from less well off families.

It is natural for a child of this age to prefer the company of slightly older children. However, if she were in a less boisterous environment, she would perhaps settle in more. Paradoxically, because the Montessori nurseries are more structured, they offer more freedom to explore what interests the child.

I would second Montessori, too. DS was at one and it was absolute Zen. Totally unselective intake but all 2 year olds in his yeargroup were sitting around the table, eating from china plates with cutlery, making thoughtful conversation in hushed indoor voices. Structured but self initiated and self led playing (only one child is allowed to play with each Montessori toy at a time to practice concentration and self motivation) is interspersed with social activities (group singing story time, games) and playground time. Most Montessoris will accept childcare vouchers and offer at least 15, if not the full 30 goverent hours for 3-5 year olds.