Another gifted at 2 y/o thread?? You bet!!

[OutnumberedDad]

Hi, this is a very long post but I would really appreciate your input.

I'm going to skip the whole 'my child can do this...is she gifted?' part because I recognise that it's impossible to say at this age. However, and for the record it is my first and therefore my glasses are extremely rose-tinted, she satisfies all of the criteria for an advanced child and is probably around Level 3 or 4 when compared to the Davidson's levels of giftedness.

Due to this, I have a multitude of questions in my mind on the best way to nurture her. I am equally aware that she may normalise but currently her learning is growing exponentially with no sign yet of stagnation so I want to keep stimulating her.

A potentially relevant point since I've read that intelligence can be hereditary is that I was basically a 'child genius'. Believe me this isn't a brag since I didn't blaze a trail of glory in any field but I could fully read, write and I knew all of my times tables before starting primary school. I achieved a score of 178 in a Mensa test aged 5 and did my Year 6 SAT's in Year 2. However, accelerated learning didn't work for me because I hated the physiological differences like being smaller than everyone else and I wanted to stay with my friends and with a daughter in the 2nd percentile these height differnces will exist for her too.

My Mum avoided pushing me academically because she didn't want me to be a troubled child prodigy as popularised in the media. Therefore, from Year 3 to Year 6 I essentially plateaued since the school were unable to stretch me and I became bored and increasingly disruptive. To some extent, these traits remained with me throughout my school life.

So, what on Earth should I do with my daughter? Ultimately, I want what my Mum wanted for me in that I just want her to be happy. However, at 27 months, she's already pretty much at a Reception Level for maths and English and while I know the formative years are about developing life-skills, how will she not get bored if she spends every year of her school life going over concepts that she already knows?

She is very friendly and every day we are at the park or going to baby groups so she is enjoying all of the wonderful parts of growing up as a child but should we also be stretching her academically? It seems ridiculous to not give her an opportunity to progress in the next two and a half years but in giving her that opportunity will school not then become even more redundant?

Again, I know that her rate of learning may slow but at a time when she is absorbing everything around her it seems odd to think about slowing her rate of learning. However, that is a legitimate thought which crosses our mind as parents.

For those who think we should stretch her, how should we go about it? We will of course make everything fun but should we 'teach' her as a teacher would or just allow her to learn by picking things up naturally in a non-focused way?

Sorry for the essay and I would really appreciate your responses.

Nothing but sympathy here. My DS is advanced and started preschool last year. He has had trouble fitting in because he’s so academically minded and preschools are all about free play these days. He just finds that boring and unrewarding, whereas he loves when they do any formal learning. His paediatrician said it’s essential to find an academically focused primary school, and if I could find a more appropriate preschool to move him. So based on that my suggestion would be to find a less play-based school if you can (if you think that would suit her).

As far as teaching her goes, I’ve always gone with the Montessori style “follow the child”. If you support her by giving her information about whatever she wants to learn she will be fine.

dd2 was reading chapter book type stuff at this point, and c s Lewis by 3rd birthday (we didn’t actually know she could read until MIL pointed it out, anyhoo) and ds1 just figured out playing shopping (giving change) and basic multiplication/ number bonds by his 3rd birthday.
Dd2 was assessed as between 5 and 7 years ahead across the board in yr r. I’m afraid I don’t know how this pans out against ‘levels of gifted ness dd2 was IQ 142 when they tested her if that helps).
It’s all horses for courses. Dd2 is quite happy. Ds1 can’t see the point of curriculum based learning as he recognizes it is largely pointless lol.

I’ve never taught them anything. We still don’t know how dd2 was reading at 2, and we definitely teach ds1 multiplication before he was 3 lol. Kids are sponges
Less naturally gifted is dd1 (her iq is 135 I think) but she works very hard and fully deserves everything she achieves. It just doesn’t come as easily to her.
Personalities are a different kettle of fish. People pleaser kids are likely to learn if they know it makes you happy. The more, um, independent minded will do whatever suits them (or not...)

Have another baby (or two) and let her be a 2yo. Then a 3yo. Then a 4yo. Really. Don’t teach. Just let her read whatever she wants, if she wNts, and play.
Smart kids don’t need academic hothousing at 3. They will learn from the world.

Atrocious typing, sorry. Am on a bus!

My eldest is around Level 2, according to the quick Google search on Davison's I just did. Before school, we didn't focus on school curriculum but rather took deep dives into topics of interest. So when the obsession with diggers happened, we borrowed stacks of books (kids fiction and NF) on them. We visited building sites and watched their movements, then tried building things at home, like caterpillar tracks and simple hydraulics. YouTube was a godsend for me!

Then space, so we visited the museum and inspired by the replica Mars Rover, he became interested in robotics.

Halloween took us to Ancient Egypt - heaps of fun with pyramids, mummies and rituals there.

His teachers have said we should try to go lateral with these extensive, so he can avoid too much boredom at school. So we played with cryptography to extend his maths. And geography is good too apparently, because he will not specialise in that at primary school.

It's exhausting but really rewarding to see how teaching him how to explore topics has paid off at school.

I'd work on her social skills or 3D spatial awareness or sensory development or any other area that might be more challenging for her because it sounds like she has academic learning covered.

My son is very bright (not gifted, as far as I know, too stubborn and bolshie for that ) but his biggest challenge at school is anxiety and social skills. He is highly aware of everything and self-conscious so he struggles with building friendships and fitting into groups.

If you develop your daughter's social skills that will stand to her in life more than any academic skills. She will figure out the academic thing herself anyway, especially if you can find the right school for her.

Your job as parent is to develop her psychological well-being - emotions, social skills and ability to process and regulate her moods / feelings. Which is what any neurotypical 2-year old is learning too.

I'm not saying she necessarily has or will have challenges in those areas I named by the way - she might be doing great on all fronts. I just named them in contrast to the traditional language arts / mathematics learning you mentioned.

Leave her to play. A young gifted child will learn regardless of whether he is stretched or not. He will learn from observing and listening. I totally agree that once at school he should be stretched sufficiently and given opportunities to extend his learning but at the age of 2 you really don’t need to do anything other than answer his questions and provide stimulating toys.
One of my children is highly gifted and by the age of 3 he could read, tell the time perfectly, count beyond a thousand and knew his 12 times tables amongst other things. I didn’t teach him any of those things, he learnt them himself through play (his times tables were learnt using the calculator on his toy shop till. He really struggled at primary school due to not being stretched and feeling like an outlier. We eventually moved him to an independent school where he was stretched and was happier. He now has a free place at a leading independent senior school where being clever is a badge of honour so he fits in well. Concentrate on the school years and finding him the right school. At the age of 2 his curiosity is the only thing you need to satisfy to help him develop.

It depends what you call teaching. Some consider reading books to a child while pointing at words, putting them in front of Cbeebies TV, counting to them or giving them educational computers as being just things everyone does an therefore the child having taught themselves. So the general environment can make a difference, rather like children learning a language "all by themselves".

I chose to actively teach dd before she started school, so taught her phonics, played games to teach her maths and got the colourful maths and writing books from Wilkos. For me, I could not see if you have a child with the ability to learn why you would not teach them. I have never yet met an adult who has told me they wish they were less intelligent. To me, education opens doors and give them choices when they are older. It took me quite some time to work out not everyone thinks like this.

Coming from a family who were denied education I think has given me a different perspective.

I did have difficulties in primary with her being so far ahead, but she is now at an excellent secondary and very happy at school.

Social ability is just as important to develop, so take her to mums and toddlers groups with the ethos of letting the children get on with playing while you chat. Or to nursery for some sessions each week.

Also, having the attitude of it not mattering how clever you are, but how well you learn helps in so many ways.

Doesn’t Davison Scholar Criteria only apply for children four plus and require formal testing?
My children are bright. They find increasing numbers of friends as they get older and the peer group self selects to an extent. They find themselves sitting on top tables or placed in top sets with other bright children. University is where they really began to see they weren’t unique but one bright person amongst many.
I don’t think at two they need any teaching over and above social skills and things like getting dressed.
The lovely thing about brighter little buttons is that you don’t have to teach them to read or do maths. They do it all by themselves. You just encourage and provide resources through play.
You might have to stand firm against reading schemes and work being set that is way below their ability level in primary school. Collaboration with the school from an early stage works best. They’ll have to learn to be bored sometimes but you can balance that with instrumental lessons and language clubs outside of school.

I have a bright DS and we have taken the selective private route. This has been right for him both socially and academically. He has had some problems with relationships and sometimes feels “different” but has learnt how to fit in and can control his overthinking which often led to major meltdowns. The early years were fine but he found yr4-6 difficult socially. Fortunately the last couple of years have been happier and he has learned to use his quick wit and intelligence rather than melting down when upset or angry.
He is a high achiever academically without a great deal of effort. He doesn’t always perform to his potential but he is competitive so when exams come around he often surprises. I push when necessary but coming from a family of academic high performers I have tried to follow my parents lead, quietly encouraging and rewarding achievement.

Many thanks for your replies, it's very refreshing to hear from people with lots of experience. Some of the talents of your children are absolutely incredible!

I think JustRichmal makes excellent points about the general home environment. Did you teach them curriculum-based things or just go for the strategy of allowing them to explore and pick up skills by osmosis?

I think that "teaching themselves" only really happens in a climate conducive to learning so some of you are selling yourself short by not taking a portion of the credit for your children's talents.

I think secondary school should be ok since there is a lot of scope for advancement and extension there but primary school does worry me. It is generally based on catchment area and we very likely wouldn't be able to finance an independent education. So do we choose locality and enhance her local friendships or try to look further afield and sacrifice that closeness with others in the village for a superior education??

Similarly, the nursery she is at is linked to her village and is a fun-based climate which is basically a toddler group. She only goes one morning a week which may rise to two but should we look for a nursery with an educational focus? A friend said his first daughter learn to count in several languages and was really nurtured at her nursery but the second goes to my daughters one which doesn't do anything like that. So many dilemmas!!

I've read that some teachers resent children joining the school already knowing the content - have any of you experienced this?

Socially, she is confident and empathetic so fortunately we don't have any concerns on that front but she can be a little impatient and is always testing the boundaries as I guess all toddlers do!

I love the idea of exploring areas of interests and really getting lost in lots of different worlds! Really appreciate this feedback, we're so split about the best routes to take.

We didn’t find any nurseries that would teach school content. The nursery management were very clear that their responsibility was limited by the KS criteria - for example, pre-reading skills only. Nursery staff are not trained teachers in any way, and to expect them to be responsible for academics is inherently problematic. They aren’t trained to teach children to read etc.
(Ds1’s nursery was the one that asked the LEA for advice, and was told nope. No policy for gifted kids prior to school age, no assessment prior to school age).
The only thing I would say is pick a through primary rather than an infant school, purely for access to different stage books. Dd2 was at an infant school in yr with 12-15yo reading skills. Primaries just usually have bigger libraries.

Re starting school - it can be frustrating for the first few months, because it takes literally that long for each child to be assessed as to current levels etc. So you may find they are all given picture books and pre-reading stuff (yes ORT) until it’s their turn for 1-1 to determine current ability. Patience is a virtue. We did say ‘x can read’ but schools prefer to carry out their own assessments (parents presumably not always being the most reliable judges of their offspring’s talents)

In your position, I would get her doing something like Suzuki violin. You could put thousands of hours into that, wonderful brain stimulation and great skill.

My ds1 is insanely smart, not a boast just a fact, he's taking GCSEs at 10 smart and attended special classes at Cambridge. He is almost impossible to keep up with, he was reading and writing very young. His maths is ridiculous. And he loves learning, he is so enthusiastic about everything.
For him school simply wasn't a option (the local school actually said they felt they couldn't really met his needs) so I home educate him.
I am very conscious not to push him so it's all led by him, we do loads of Immersive education ie traveling round Italy to learn about Ancient Rome and learn the language, naturally he learnt much faster then me! I feel this approach achieves a balance. He is also very social and has loads of friends but the classes allow him to work at the right level with other of his peers.
You have my sympathy it's insanely hard work, keeping up with him but worth it. It was at about 2.5 when I first realised something was different about the way he was learning,
Gentle encouragement and be guided by your dd i would say.

Had a quick look at the levels and apart from the speaking DS1 would have been a level 5 (he didn’t utter a word until he was 2 and 1/2 but then literally went from grunting to proper adult conversation in about 2 days! It was like he didn’t want to talk until he knew it all)
He was reading before he could talk, doing complex puzzles very early on etc and when he was 4 his reading age was assessed as 14+, he used to read the dictionary for fun when he was preschool age!

For us though he has ASD so he had physical things that needed working on and he needed physio and occupational therapy so in the first couple of years we concentrated on that plus social skills.

I would say choose your school wisely, ours is brilliant and over the years they have done lots of stuff with him, eg in year 1 as he could spell pretty much anything his teacher made up a special spelling challenge todo with him while the others were doing thier spellings etc.

Just be led by the child and whatever thier current interests are.

I was a hot houses child (joined Mensa when I was 12, put up a year in primary school and then had to repeat year 6 as the secondary schools wouldn’t take you early) had to do hours of music a day, practise 11+ papers etc etc and I hated it, so much that when I went to uni I dropped out and went travelling for 3 years so never lived up to my potential.

mamaryllis I don't think teachers do that because they think parents can't be good judges of their children's talent, it's because a - they have to, and b - many, many children will 'perform' well at home, but will reach different levels at school. Maybe it's because the questions are asked in a different way, or because it's much more difficult to achieve a task with another 29 children around and only one teacher.

Some children do well at maths at home working with their parent on a specific topic and that's great, but at school the method may be different, the problems are often word problems as opposed to numbers on a page.

OP I think your post makes a lot of sense and clearly you are very aware that your daughter has special talents. However, if she is already at reception level in maths and English it's probably because you are teaching her. Obviously she is picking things up very quickly but please read your own post. I find it difficult to understand why you are worried about her education and being so advanced, and at the same time you keep on teaching her. Just let her build sandcastles without counting the turrets, and play in the mud, and climb at the mark without counting the steps. She is a toddler. Just let her play.

I have just skimmed through the level of giftedness that you are referring to and I'd really question the validity of the categories, specifically that it completely bypasses children who talk late. The assumption is that in all categories, language develops early. This is not a reflection on reality. There are children who start speaking very late and with time show a great deal of giftedness. It's a well known and documented category. Einstein is an example.

@Twofishfingers
I agree with you, DS was a level 5 in everything apart from speech and it’s quite common for highly gifted to be late talkers
DD on the other hand astounded the health visitors with her level of speech as a toddler, she was a very early talker and had an amazing vocabulary and conversational skill and she isn’t stupid but it just normal for her age, well I say normal she’s ahead in literacy but behind in maths.

I never actively taught anything, unless dd asked about something. I just did all the same things all involved parents do with dc. Probably less because I didn't have any concerns about her ability to learn. The content of what we did/ talked about might have been different, but not the idea. Counting spoons of flour or converting metric to imperial when you're baking together is all the same thing.

Never bought a workbook, or in fact given a thought to the curriculum or what she should learn next. I just followed her lead, and if she wanted puzzles or questions I made them up.

I think if people hot house average dc to a year or two ahead at primary age then logistically it's an unnecessary difficulty. If however dc are gifted/ highly intelligent, it makes no difference logistically, because they'll always be ahead whether you teach them in advance or not. So if dc are latter category it doesn't matter whether you teach them from the PoV of school and age related expectations.

Dd wasn't interested in learning to read till she was in reception, but when she did learn she became extremely fluent very quickly. She didn't fit in with general lessons any easier than an equal ability child who started reception able to read.

And yy re the speech. Friends ds hit all those types of milestones a long way behind dd, but was always equally intelligent, and by 5 or so they were very evenly matched, and still are as teens.

Oh yy fish. I know they have to. I’ve just listened to years of parents whining because it doesn’t happen fast enough for their liking (see primary boards every sept and oct) so thought it was worth mentioning. I know parents find it v frustrating I was more poking fun at the parents, def not the teachers

I appreciate the levels aren't conclusive and have their limitations but it seemed the best way to describe her 'talents' without saying she did this at x months and this at y months etc etc!

@Twofishfingers, the last sentence of your first post is my dilemma. I don't want her to get bored at school but I think not harnessing her potential fully might be the worst option of the two. If she had incredible talent at a sport for example (and most importantly enjoyed it) I would certainly facilitate as many options as possible for her to develop as best as she can. I think this mirrors my view on education. In sport, as with education, I wouldn't impose it on her every day since I think that diversification is crucial to her overall development.

It appears that the consensus here is that being ahead of the curve is worth the potential boredom in education. I think we will continue trying to get a good balance but maybe look to play more board and card games with her as this will help with taking turns etc as well. Shopping and working out payment and change also seems fun and educational.

I guess we will keep trying to create that environment for learning mentioned by somebody else earlier and not follow a school syllabus which could quite plausibly have changed by the time she reaches school age.

Overall, some seriously impressive assistance here. I think nursery-wise we'll keep her local unless she asks for otherwise. Then, in a couple of years if the rate of learning has maintained then we can search for a school that wants to take her under their wing.

In the meantime, we are so lucky just to be able to enjoy everything she does and with her 3 month old little sister growing up way too fast as well before we know it they won't be our little ones any more so we will relish every moment we have!

Thanks all.

Your children are very gifted and this is a special thing, but make sure the value they have in life is more than about being clever or how well they are doing, or they can feel this is what makes them who they are.

The more they succeed the more they are asked to do. As life goes on it can be exhausting. When they come to a failure from trying too much, it can be a terrible blow.

Happy things you are all doing together as a family, with no 'goal' in mind, should often matter more than teaching them more maths that day etc.
Doing jobs, helping out, having responsibilities are all just as important.
In the end, without these, life may not work as well as it should.

It can be a great burden for the child if his parents are living off his/her achievements (difficult to avoid with a childlike this) and the child is never able to stop and pause.

Try to let them lead the way with interests as others have suggested.

Be careful of falling into the trap of trying to do everything equally brilliantly up to age 18 (they may well be very good at everything). There comes a time when it is better to concentrate on something, or the most brilliant can end up falling between too many stools while tortoises going in one direction get there and flourish through calm resilience, modesty and persistence.

An interesting and thoughtful post, TooManyMiles.

I like the quote from G. K. Chesterton, ‘Anything worth doing is worth doing badly’. In other words, focus on the intrinsic joy of doing something rather than on whether or not you excel at it.

Thank you OutwiththeOut, that is an an excellent saying by G.K. Chesterton, and you have explained what it really means perfectly imo.