Is there some thing I should be doing with possibly gifted 5 year old?

[Nursejackie1]

My son is 5 years old. Since being a baby he has always had at any one time one or more subjects he is obsessed with and will learn absolutely everything he can using TV, Google, books and asking endless questions. He has a fantastic memory and can remember the numbers of hotel room we stayed in from when he was 2 years old. For example he has taught himself about all the countries of the world in great detail, all the flags, knows a ridiculous amount about the human body (last night he was telling me about peristalsis, the whole digestive system and was asking what would happen if our pancreative duct got blocked). He figured out for himself that the countries of the world look like a jigsaw that could fit together and asked me if it was once one and broke off. This was last year. He knows all the parts of the eye including things like vitreous humour and what each part does and the same with the ear etc. When he has a sore throat he will tell me his oesophagus is hurting. He taught himslef to read maps and kbows evwry street in our town, hes like a mini satnav. He loves maths, taught himself to read and just in general has a massive thirst for knowledge. He is otherwise a typical boisterous and loving boy that has a very witty sense of humour. He does really well in school and the teachers have picked up on some of it but I don't think he let's on just how much he knows.
As he is my first son and I have not really been involved with kids so young I have no idea whether he is gifted, or just very bright and what if anything goes I should be doing about it? The reason I ask is that my Mum says one of my cousins was the same when he was young but unfortunately without the right guidance he ended up going off he rails and she feels his intelligence was wasted.
I haven't said much to his teachers, I somehow feel like I'm boasting when I describe what he's like and have no idea whether I should be making more of a thing of it or not. Can anybody offer any advice...are there any extra curricular activities I should be getting him into or clubs or anything or just go with the flow? Should I be discussing it with the teachers?

If you are on Facebook search for the group parenting High potential. Lots of advice there

I agree regarding high potential.

I think the main thing you should be doing is as you are, encouraging him. Help him in this quest for knowledge and help him discover new things he's interested in once he's grown beyond the things he knows.

In my experience schools will catch things pretty early into primary school when he demonstrates his abilities via speech and class assignments but it definitely wouldn't hurt to have a little chat with the teacher and head in regards to asking them what you could be doing more at home in order to aid his progress.

It doesn't matter whether he's 'gifted' or 'very bright', does it? You're doing exactly the right thing with him. The main thing will be keeping him interested in things at home, because school will be a walk in the park for him (academically.) I would encourage his social skills, his creativity and his physical skills, too. It can be too easy in a way to just focus on academic skills.

Perhaps get him involved in extra curricular activities to further his interests? It might also be worth getting him involved in activities to boost his social skills and make friends - as kids get older they can be very cruel to those they perceive as being more intelligent. Having a group of reliable friends is the best defence against bullying.

Thanks for your replies. I just don't want him to not reach his full potential or lose interest because I've missed something and haven't done enough. He is very social and has lots of friends in school and out, but I will encourage his friendship circle as much as I can, to do what I can to ward off bullying as the kids get older incase it does become an issue.

And I've applied to join the Facebook group, thanks.

One of the causes of misunderstandings on these threads is that people aren't clear what they mean by gifted. UK government policy prior to 2010 defined G&T as the top 5-10% of the ability range of a cohort but this is broader than the international consensus, which generally defines gifted as top 2% / IQ 130+. The latter matches what DfE / Ofsted refer to as "exceptionally able".
Operationally the difference is that if you're in the top 10% but not in the top 2%, you'll have peers of similar ability in the classroom, and the teacher will have plenty of experience of this ability range (it equates to "just very bright"). But once you get into the top 2% (gifted) you'll generally have no peers of similar ability in a typical class, teachers will have more limited experience, and a school's normal G&T provision may not meet the child's needs. i.e. gifted essentially means "in need of a different environment and education".
When you focus on even higher ability levels (e.g. highly gifted/ IQ 145+ / top 0.1%), the teacher may never knowingly have dealt with such a child, it won't have been covered in their training, and a school's normal G&T provision - even if it's academically selective - is completely inadequate.
From what you have said, and having dealt with a couple of similar children, I'd hazard a guess to say: definitely gifted, probably highly gifted.

You may want to consider an ed psych assessment. it'd be quicker if done privately (£450 or more) or you could open a dialogue with the school and see if it could be done through local authority. Schools' responses can be very variable. Some get it and try their best to meet the child's needs; others deny what's right in front of them because to acknowledge it would mean they'd have to do something about it.
You should also familiarise yourself with acceleration

Some useful info:
first steps
papers by Miraca Gross Karen Rogers and Linda Silverman. The books by the same authors are excellent.
Organisations: hoagies PEGY NAGC

Some things that can be good for a very able 5 year old:

1. It's a good age to start many musical instruments - it can teach them that some things require hard work.
2. An electronics kit like snap circuits might be of interest; knex or meccano is also good
3. a good children's encyclopaedia eg by DK; the Wells of Knowledge Science books are also nice.

@gfrnn thank you for taking the time to write such an informative post. I will look into getting the assessment as it would give me more idea of how to support him. I will also check out the links.

Hi nursejackie, how do you feel school is working for him at the moment? Is he enjoying it? Is he learning? And is he 5 in reception or year 1 if you're in the English system?

I do think it's worth having conversations with the teachers about what's going on. Have you had parents' evenings yet? In the first place things tend to come up then for us. I think it's fine to tell them what you're seeing at home. Sometimes the context is wrong in school for showing the skills they have. When DD started school they were so pleased she could sound out c-v-c words they failed to notice she could fluently read chapter books.

It's not showing off. You're on the same team as the teacher, you're both trying to support the child. Give them any information that will help them do that. It's also likely that if your child is very able, at some point they will start getting frustrated with some aspect of school learning. If you've already had open conversations about their abilities it might be easier to raise again at that point.

Sometimes it's easier to show not tell though. (And reassures the teacher that child really is able and you're not just a bonkers pushy parent!) With the above example with DD I said to the teacher that I felt I was seeing a big disconnect between the teacher's assessment and what I was seeing DD doing at home, and could I send in some examples of what she was reading and writing. That seemed to work well as then they could see exactly where DD's limits were.

Also a big fan of learning music outside school for a very bright child if they're interested at all. When they have individual lessons they can go as fast as they can cope with and there will always be challenge.

Yeah. Getting out and having a huge amount of fun.

Fun goes without saying

@pickachew we very rarely have a day in. He does loads of stuff, loves being outdoors, general kids stuff building dens, goes to jiu jitsu, trampolining, soft play, swimming, riding his bike and all sorts of different outdoor stuff. He has lots of friends we meet up with. I hope I haven't portrayed him as a recluse that is spending all his time doing academic stuff, he loves having fun, I'm just trying to do my best for his ability and interests.

@catkind thanks, that's exactly what I am worried about...coming across as some crazy pushy mother but I will definitely talk to them at parents evening and tell them what he is like at home. He loves the work he does at school but it's easy for him and I don't think the opportunity arises very often for him to be able to talk about the things he knows about. He is one of the older ones in his class he's in reception and I know the ability varies alot at that age but the things he loves learning at home just seem very advanced for his age.

I'm going to look into the musical instrument lessons I like the idea of him learning about hard work to achieve things.

In my experience the teachers don't need to be informed of how gifted a child is, they know. When my DS was assessed it only confirmed what they'd already figured out themselves. At 5 his maths is already beyond anything they can do with him but he doesn't have a clue how to play with other children.

@MimpiDreams not disputing that what you've said might have been true in your case, but if so, you've been very lucky. This hasn't been my experience at all. We've had assessments from school which have underestimated attainment by 4 years in reading and 5-7 years in maths (as later confirmed by both ed psych and experienced subject specialists). And these were schools assessed by Ofsted/ISI as good/excellent.

@zzzzz Sorry, but I disagree completely for the following reasons:

Firstly, re: "I really don’t think assessing is necessary", reasons why formal assessment/identification might be needed are summarized here. Note in particular "Many parents report that having their child assessed by an experienced educational psychologist was the single most important thing they have done to help their child".
Secondly re: "educating a primary school child with a high IQ’s is fairly straight forward". you might think so, but it's not necessarily so. There must exist the knowledge of the correct level of attainment/instruction and both the will and ability to cater to that level. Without a proper assessment you won't know the level. In the current system (since G&T was scrapped in 2010) there is little will/incentive (and no funding) to cater more than a year or so above chronological age. Many teachers in this country are ignorant of or irrationally prejudiced against acceleration. As for ability, it is not at all straightforward for a primary teacher who might have an English or History degree and never took a higher qualification in maths higher than GCSE to cater for a child who might be functioning 5 or more years above age in maths. That's why, once a child starts to access secondary level material, they usually have specialist subject teachers. If you really think "they are unlikely to surpass the education level of their teachers" then you have never dealt with a highly gifted child. DS's school have been quite open about the fact that he is going beyond what they can teach - the fact that they are honest about it makes it easier to plan together what to do next. If they were in denial it would be far more difficult.
Which brings me back to point I made above: there are different levels of giftedness. Primary school teachers are generalists. In dealing with the higher/highest levels of ability they should be able to count on support from specialists including ed psychs to provide guidance. In that sense primary teachers are akin to GP's - they should know when to refer on and not have the hubris to think they can deal with every situation without specialist input - if a GP tried this they'd be struck off.

They try. But he's autistic and can do maths calculations in his head faster than we can get the calculator out.

Yes I think you're probably right. We have been extremely lucky with school. The head teacher is determined to help every child reach their full potential and this does trickle down through the whole school quite noticeably.

Are you sure he isn’t autistic?

If he's happy in school then I wouldn't raise it at the moment. Ime, and from many on here, reception isn't usually a problem. If the school don't try and meet his needs, it's more likely to be y1 and formal learning when issues arise if the work is too simple. If that does happen raise it then.

I'm not sure I agree that it doesn't cause problems in primary schools though. A dc gifted in maths won't have covered all the topics that a teacher with a GCSE has, but even at 6, let alone y6, is likely to have very different thought processes.

It's perfectly possible that a very good, competent primary teacher won't necessarily have studied the same areas the child is gifted in to a level where they can easily cater to that child's needs. Let alone when you add in another 29 to cater to also.

At this point I'd just leave him to it as he's happy. And find something that doesn't come naturally easy, and that preferably he is distinctly average at to do. After being put off learning through tedium/ the ridiculously simple, never learning to fail is probably the biggest pitfall for gifted dc. Older dc or teens who sail through life being the best at everything without even trying hard struggle to cope when they do come up against something difficult or someone even better.

gfrnn what a great post

Previous yr 6 teacher here. There have been a select few pupils who I have been unable to teach (in maths) and had to look for more specialist support (2 pupils in 8 yrs). It has never been a problem in reading or writing (however this could be because this is my stronger area). I totally agree that a highly gifted child will have more advanced thought processes than some of their teachers in primary. Schools don't necessarily like admitting they can't cater to a child's needs. Do not be the 'you're not doing enough for my child' parent. Definitely aim to work with the school to get the best for you son.

I don't agree that a teacher will know all he wants to know. Eg l have taught a very gifted child who had a huge interest in astronomy and he was completely ahead of me on knowledge . Now l know l could have studied it but its an area of little interest to me and it would have taken me hours to catch up. He also studied Japanese in his spare time and obviously left me standing there. There were other areas of interest too where l couldn't keep up. To be honest there were times l hardly knew what he was talking about. I myself have an IQ of over 140 but l had completely opposite interests to him. But then there were huge gaps in his knowledge l could help with and he was a very easy child to get on with.
My own dd was diagnosed as gifted and talented as a child and her special gift was language ..writing creatively to an extremely high standard as a very young child among other things.And nearly a frightening level of debate and discourse. But she didn't totally reveal that orally ..more in writing. She did get frustrated at times but generally loved school because of her friends.
Op try to let your child have a normal life as much as possible. Plenty of down time is important . Don't expect his social and emotional level to be any higher than others his age. Playing word games and quizzes..even watching those types of programmes are great and can become an area of fun for you and him.

Thanks again for all your replies. The only reason I would want him tested of we do go along that route is to enable us to reach his full potential. His interests at the moment are the world about which he tells me about autonomous states and provinces etc ando fully understands what they mean. He also has a fascination with the human body and even as a nurse I feel that he's beginning to surpass my knowledge and in both these areas to be honest I feel like I am beginning to be unable to answer his questions and can just imagine what it will be like as he gets older. These are not subjects which are taught in any detail at school at his age which means that 1) the teachers wouldn't necessarily pick up on his knowledge and 2) I was wondering whether my support in these areas of interest will be enough to give him the best encouragement etc or whether I'm missing something some other way I could support him.

To the poster who asked if he could be autistic I did wonder when he was a toddler but apart from his intelligence and obsessive interests there are absolutely no other signs. I have looked into it and have plenty of experience with working with children on the spectrum and he has no other behaviour that is like autism.

I will see how parents evening goes and what the teachers say and how much they have picked up on.