PE & Sport

[fizzandchips]

Hi everyone. I’m a teacher and doing a sports course at the moment. Our lecturer keeps saying things like; “Roger Federer didn’t come out of the womb an amazing tennis player!” he insists talent is nurture NOT nature. I’m really interested in your views; specifically in sport, physical capability ie dance, does your child have a ‘gift’ or ‘talent’ that’s been obvious from an early age?

Like most things, it is a combination of both.
You need to have a natural "eye" but you won't get anywhere without hard work and practice.

I'm a piano teacher, I'd rather have someone of average natural ability who works than a natural talent who doesn't.

Check out the documentary 'Vanessa Mae the making of me' on Youtube they did quite a few scientific tests on how her musicality developed what came naturally and what was really hard work,

The ones who really make it have a natural talent and a phenomenal work ethic.

One of the stats regularly quoted is 10000 hours of practice to make a professional musician. I also once saw a documentary with Richter (amazing Russian pianist) where he said that any more than 3 hours a day was counterproductive and his wife was muttering in the background 'well thats rubbish you do 7'

www.musicthinktank.com/mtt-open/10000-hours-of-practice-makes-perfect.html

My kid just won a gold medal at the commonwealth youth games for his sport in the Bahamas last summer. So he's quite good at what he does. (I take full credit because he came out of my vagina and I've achieved fuck all in sports in my entire life).

However, there is no denying that he was totally and utterly shit when he first started the sport about 10 years ago and continued to be totally shit for quite some time. It was also the third sport we had tried for him after he had been totally shit at those previous forays into athleticism....

He lost repeatedly and spectacularly and we spent years letting him know that we were just proud that he was getting out there and having a go.

I don't think he was born with a sporting talent at all. He was super clumsy and not remotely agile.

But he does have a determined (stubborn)? mindset and he just kept getting back up and trying.

He is also coachable. He really listens to feedback and takes on board what his coaches tell him. He just worked at it really bloody hard.

One day he won... then he won again.... and again and again...

He wasn't born with it.

Have you come across the book Bounce: The Myth of Talent and the Power of Practice by Matthew Syed? He played table tennis in the Olympics and has a lot to say on the topic.

From my own observations, I think a keen parent can almost will a child to succeed, through arranging the necessary training opportunities and encouraging the child to view the whole enterprise as worthwhile, whether it be in sports or an academic discipline.

Thanks everyone for your insightful feedback. Much appreciated.

DH who is a primary school teacher, keen sportsperson and cricket coach always says 'practice doesn't make perfect. It makes better'.

Kids expect that they will do 10 hours of tennis and be great at it, but it won't make you great, it will only make you better.

Yes, some children will have a better 'natural' balance, others will have issues such as hypermobility or lower muscle tone, some will be small for their age, etc. However a lot of it is through hard work, not just for hard work's sake but it does develop certain parts of your brain.

I was not an athletic person at school, and had incredibly poor hand-eye coordination. At the age of about 20 I learned to juggle. It took me a long time, and now at 46 I can juggle with four balls and this repeated action has allowed my brain to develop a way of predicting where a ball would go even if I am not looking directly at it. As a consequence, I can now play table tennis quite well, tennis, and I am a pretty good fielder at cricket. I can catch a ball very reliably. I think that practicing juggling has enabled my brain to develop a specific path that supports hand eye coordination. In my mind it's a balance, natural ability or genes do play a part in it but the majority is hard work, commitment, resilience, just sticking with it.

My nephew is a very talented young cricketer and runner. I think it’s a combination of things, he is physically very broad and strong and he has the right body for it, but he’s also very single minded and persistent. He’s been obsessed by cricket since he was 8. I remember watching him playing cricket with some kids in the park and saying to my mum, “oh dear, he’s all talk and no action, shame he’ll never get anywhere with it “ I never for a minute believed he would be where he is today. He didn’t stand out as being naturally able at all! However, I think for him it was just a case of practice, practice , practice and a positive mindset. Undoubtedly there are high flyers in every field who were born with that edge. My son is an amazing mathematician. It is innate, no doubt aboutit. He just gets maths. Always has done and you can’t recreate that. I think practice, persistence and nurture are as important in developing those skills though.

This is a very interesting topic. I have 3 kids all involved in sports - irish dancing, GAA football, hurling, swimming and gymnastics.

My DD aged 10 and DS aged 7 are really good irish dancers. Their teacher said they both have a natural talent for it, DD does this flick with her ankle in hard shoe dancing that her teacher says you either have or don't, its too hard to teach it. They both have a talent for musical timing but this is something I think that can be taught easier.

She told me that there are a couple of dances with very tricky timing that takes most kids ages to learn. DD and only one or two other kids were able to get this timing immediately. That being said DD doesn't practise and doesn't have that drive and kids who are not as naturally talented are much better than her because they put hours of practise into it.

DS2 is naturally very good at all sports, he is performing really well in all the sports he does and is moving through the levels much quicker than his siblings, but he loves to practise!

DS1 is very academic but not talented in sports. He is clumsy, he has no 3d vision so struggles to catch a ball (twofishfingers I am definitely going to get him to try juggling!). He is not overweight at all but is broad and big boned unlike the other two who are very slim. He wont take direction, if I try to give him advice he will argue with me all day long. When he puts his mind to something he achieves so much and I know if he put more effort into the work he would be much better. He loves sports and I do think that at some point it will all click for him.

It is heartening to hear the stories about kids who started out not being good but ended up much better. It definitely shows that practise does pay off.

Skepticism.

There’s a saying that hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.
I agree with that. For many sports and even musical stuff there are physical aspects that make a talent easier- good hand eye coordination for racquet sports, flexibility and strength for most sports etc. But when the child with talent doesn’t work hard or want to try then those who want it will overtake them.

OP, you lecturer is right... and wrong.

Roger Federer didn't come out of the womb an amazing tennis player, but I dare say he was born with more of the right potential physical attributes than normal. Faster reflexes than average, a tendency to recover from injury quickly, good proprioception and hand/eye co-ordination, naturally good balance, and the right sort of physique for elite sport etc. All of that will have given him a head start.

In equestrian sports people say you need 2/3 of talent, hard work and money. I think in all sports this is probably true to a greater or lesser extent. In talent, I do include the right physical attributes to succeed.