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Gifted and talented

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Original poster

grrr... comprehensive maths

104 replies

vrijeme · 19/07/2017 11:50

Just a rant.. I'm expecting the comprehensive enthusiasts to violently disagree with me.

DS1 is in year 10, Ds2 in year 8. Both excel at maths. For the second year running, DS1 got a merit on the UKMT Kangaroo. DS2 got his first merit on the junior kangaroo. Both achieved the best scores in the school, not just for their year.

Additionally, DS1 has the head of the maths dept teaching him and got a near perfect score on some recent big exams. DS2 also tends to come top, or second top (there's another boy just as good as him). Ds1 has no one who comes close with results etc.
DS1 is very bored in maths lessons. The teacher/ HoD knows and says he will do something about it, but never does. I've spoken to him 4 times over three years, so there's no way that he's unaware.
DS1 feels that the lessons aren't for him and that its a punishment being made to sit there listening to the same stuff over and over.
However, i understand the teacher's position about the number of times he needs to go over things again.
DS1 has a talent for maths but its going to waste because he is so unhappy in maths lessons that he's beginning to really dislike the subject. the teacher knows this too.
Now to the point of my rant. Both boys were due certificates for the UKMT merits. The HoD held onto them for ages (months). I wondered if maybe he was saving the for the awards evening.
But no. Neither boy got any recognition at the awards evening. Someone who achieves approx 25% lower scores in maths than DS1 got the maths award - he posted his photo with it online.
As to the UKMT certificate, the HOD stopped DS1 in the corridor a couple of days ago and gave it to him. Ds2 was given his yesterday, tucked into his maths homework.

The school is proudly comprehensive. I'd argue that they don't understand the meaning of comprehensive, because it seems that outliers are excluded.

OP posts:
CaretakerToNuns · 20/07/2017 17:07

Your attitude is rather selfish - there are ~30 pupils in the class, not just your son.

The main purpose of secondary education is to equip pupils with the basic skills they need to go out and get a job. Your son is obviously already there, so it makes sense that the teacher is focusing on the others and making sure they can reach the required standard - it's basic equality of outcome.

Original poster
vrijeme · 20/07/2017 17:10

@BertrandRussell - that's more or less what i have said to Ds1. Then the topic of where he could go for A levels comes up and which he'd like to do.
You know that feeling of finding something achingly boring? Not just for 10 mins or that one time, but its a regular part of your life? Maybe a commute or a job that you're looking to leave? Well that's how Ds1 feels about maths, and he's fighting with himself to try to either commit to another two years for A level or do something else, but the problem is that whilst there are things he likes, he's nowhere near as good at them as he is maths, and he thinks hes only "good" at maths, rather than exceptional, so he thinks he must be bad at the other things, and therefore he doesn't want to do them for A level. so, we go in circles and the only way i know how to break it, is if he can learn that maths can be enjoyably challenging.

OP posts:
Original poster
vrijeme · 20/07/2017 17:12

@CaretakerToNuns - I've only read your first line. Actually you miss the point. My son is 1 of 30 in a class, not 29 plus the invisible man which is how the teacher behaves.

OP posts:
Original poster
vrijeme · 20/07/2017 17:14

I've read the rest .... equality of outcome is nonsense.. Equality of opportunity is the just version.

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TinklyLittleLaugh · 20/07/2017 17:22

Is there something he could do online? Surely the school at least does additional maths, most do.

user789653241 · 20/07/2017 17:34

If he doesn't excel at anything else but maths, why don't you encourage him to get more enthusiastic about something else as well? Other subjects? Sports? Music? Arts?
I agree that he needs a challenge, and school is wrong to make him suffer, but life is not all about maths, is it?

My ds is a lot younger, but he used be obsessed with maths/numbers/logic/ concepts. He has changed since he started learning piano. Music is definitely maths related, I suppose, but still a bit different. Also he does martial arts, and getting black belt soon, if he puts his mind to it...
He is way ahead in maths, can easily do ks3/4 maths in yr4, but totally happy at school and his everyday life.
I want ds to be more rounded person than just focused in maths,tbh.

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/07/2017 17:40

I completely identify with the lack of challenge, I was in the same position myself for the first 3 years of maths at school. Thankfully, I was fortunate to have a good teacher for GCSE and A level, and was able to do an additional Maths extension paper along side my GCSE. It is incomprehensible that your DS1s teacher doesn't want to engage with him, I find it baffling.

I wonder if you could enter him for an additional maths paper at gcse and have a tutor for him if he needs it? In his actual maths lessons, once he has done the work set plus any extra work available, could he study his own additional maths work perhaps? As long as he isn't disruptive and joins in with any activities as required.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2017 18:07

Yes, I get that he's bored in maths lessons and that is unacceptable. But what I'm saying is that he probably just has to grin and bear that, and focus on other subjects. Maths is just one among many.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2017 18:08

Although it does seem strange that maths is treated as a special case by many parents.

Original poster
vrijeme · 20/07/2017 18:29

it could be science / languages/ english / history / music / art. There's nothing special about maths except that it happens to be what DS is good at(and it does lend itself to differentiation by outcome in the way subjects like English does i.e. you can't just write a better essay).

DS likes other things well enough, and since he's due to get 8s and 9s in most of is other subjects, its not like he's doing badly. Its just that he doesn't think he is any good at them because he has recalibrated good based on the maths.

If he could begin to enjoy maths, then it would be obvious to do a degree and a job of which maths is a major component. But there's no point setting on a course that will make him miserable.

DS doesn't know what he wants to do. He's only 15. He only knows about school life, and school life has taught him that maths is synonymous with boredom.

OP posts:
user789653241 · 20/07/2017 18:32

Bert, I think maths is special case because it's so simple. If you get it, you get it. There are no ambiguity. Other things, literature, art, etc., can be interpreted differently by different people.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2017 18:33

"Its just that he doesn't think he is any good at them because he has recalibrated good based on the maths"
It's this that needs addressing then. Because it is obviously skewed thinking.

Original poster
vrijeme · 20/07/2017 18:34

@AssassinatedBeauty
I think - am fairly certain that- the school does not offer any extra maths at GCSE (I'm not sure of the difference between further and additional, TBH, but I've seen neither in the choices list).

He could do it outside school, but I know the teacher will refuse to let Ds do anything other than the work he sets the whole class inside the classroom. (I've asked and been rejected a couple of times).

OP posts:
user789653241 · 20/07/2017 18:37

The thing is, children these day are lucky. There are millions of things they can access on internet. I don't understand why it can get synonymous with boredom.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2017 18:38

"I think maths is special case because it's so simple. If you get it, you get it"
Yes, I agree. So you say to the child "you're really lucky that your brain works in a way that means you find maths easy. Not everyone is like that. I am sorry that you have 4 boring lessons a week- I will try to find someone outside school to help you, but in the meantime, get working on 9s in everything else and see if you can be one of the 3 clean sweepers expected in 2018" (or whatever the number is(

Original poster
vrijeme · 20/07/2017 18:41

yes, but how do you unskew it? I've argued myself blue with him. He follows the argument, sees the logic but doesn't feel it.

Then a few weeks later, he's upset about not being up to some work in another subject. I ask the teacher if there's a problem and she tells me that no, Ds is doing very well in her top set class and should attain his target. This has happened 3 times this year. Then both the teacher and I puzzle over why he would think he's "useless" when he's clearly not. This has happened 3 times this year and I believe him everytime, thinking that he must be right.

The maths dept tell me that Ds is exceptionally good, but they won't tell him. He's not the type to brag, so i don't know why.

However, he is 15 now, and I'm his mother. My influence is waning. there was a time when he took my word as gospel, but not now. He needs help calibrating from other people, outside of our home.

OP posts:
user789653241 · 20/07/2017 18:49

Does he reads his report? If he is high achiever in everything, he must be getting raving report from all the teachers? Doesn't that restore his confidence?

towelpintpeanuts · 20/07/2017 18:51

As others have said, this really isn't a comprehensive school issue, but I'd certainly agree it's a shit teaching issue. For context - my son's comp had their awards day yesterday: as well as awards for achievement in each subject, for progress in each subject & more general stuff, they specifically mentioned the three top achievers in UKMT who got to kangeroo, gave their scores and pulled out that these were the highest scores for their year in a few years, to give us a context. They didn't give out the certs, but they were certainly given praise. Compressive schools aren't just there to ignore achievement in general!

I think there are three options for you:

  1. Get an external tutor in maths: realistically it sounds like both your kids are outstanding, and giving them some one to one outside of school will help engage that passion and make them see the possibilities. Mytutor has students who tutor online - which would probably be ideal in giving them a role model of a mathematician, as well as that challenge
  2. Talk to the school again at the beginning of next year when everyone is fresh - ask to see how they are going to challenge and progress your boys in maths - surely they must have a plan, as they understand where ds is and what he needs so well Suggest that you organise a review session for the end of the term, so the teacher knows you'll be back! Honestly, this just isn't acceptable imo, and I'd just keep challenging it.
  3. On the awards: let it go, you can't change how your school does these things, but find a way to give ds the boost he needs: make sure he understands what a big deal his results are. He sounds fab and very like my ds (although my ds is no-where near as talented as your sounds!)
annandale · 20/07/2017 18:55

Yeah, that's crap. I'd be getting your ds to applyou to the Exeter Mathematics School and the King's College Maths School, with the promise that he can change again if he hates them.

Original poster
vrijeme · 20/07/2017 19:19

@irvineoneohone secondary school reports are a series of numbers and coloured boxes - red (danger), amber (warning) and green (good). There are no words or comments. So his reports are glowing, they just show high targets and green to show he's likely to attain the targets (and another column of greens that say he has a good attitude for learning).

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AssassinatedBeauty · 20/07/2017 19:25

You can probably enter him as an independent candidate into the additional maths. I can't see how his maths teacher can stop him working on extra maths if he has done everything that's been asked of him and he also participates in the lesson activities. I cannot believe his maths teacher would rather he sat there doing nothing.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 20/07/2017 20:44

Who have you spoken to at the school about this so far?

user789653241 · 20/07/2017 20:52

Oh, sorry! Blush

PhilODox · 20/07/2017 21:06

At the risk of sounding snarky, how is it really such an achievement getting a merit in the kangaroo round, if he is so gifted at maths? Grin If he did it but wasn't quite so gifted, that would be an achievement.
It's not a comprehensive issue, it's a school he's in issue. If you're not happy, move him.
However, I would say this- maths is something you can learn yourself, and study independently, that no-one outside your head can see what you're thinking. There's nothing stopping him from extending himself at home, or indeed in lessons. It's perfectly possible to be thinking about one problem whilst answering questions I'm class about another.

Lurkedforever1 · 20/07/2017 21:15

Would he rebel enough to take in a book/magazine/crossword and inconspicuously do it when he's meant to be repeating the same old?

Alternatively can you find him some challenging maths outside school so he realises it's a school issue not a maths issue?

Or just put him in for the gcse asap so school have to admit he doesn't need to sit in class and repeat it endlessly.