Maths....

[oldbirdy]

My ds (9) is very good at maths. Never managed to get school to do anything extra but git him an 11+ tutor recently who is very excited about him, says he could do higher maths GCSE now with just a little teaching of content. She is talking about maths Olympiad etc when he's older and says he's the most capable mathematician she has ever had. She can't keep him on after Feb for personal reasons, and I don't want to let him drift again like I did for all these years at school. She will 'pick him up' again end of the year but does anyone have any suggestions for good resources he can work on in the meantime? He's better than me already, my maths is very average. Are there junior equivalents of the Olympiad for example or other organisations for talented mathematicians? He comes alive when he's working on a really hard puzzle, bless him.

I do agree there shouldn't be ceiling just for maths.
Nobody stops child reading harder books, or participate higher grade in music/ sports/ dance, etc.
My ds has slowed down a bit, but it's his own choice. He found other interests. But if he stayed like how he was a year or 2 ago, I wouldn't have stopped him learning just because it makes secondary teachers' work harder.

I do think it's really important not to push the curriculum at children who are very good at maths. There are people who do put their children in for an early gcse and tutor them for it because they think it looks good. Those children don't develop an innate understanding of 'why'. The gcse up until now was easy to tutor to for even just relatively bright kids. I think that the new gcse is a little bit more difficult for them. But maths shouldn't be about pressure of getting a good exam grade, it should be about enjoyment.

The thing is, gcse maths is utterly inconsequential for those who are brilliant mathematicians. I think that the best approach is to ignore its existence and go and find much much more interesting maths.

Sorry oldbirdy these threads often get hijacked with a similar discussion, so none of this is aimed at you. Your ds sounds like he is really enjoying his maths and that's brilliant. I'd def keep encouraging the coding at the moment.

Oldbirdy, it was an interesting way he had devised for adding 1-100. I would have got him to do the method with easier numbers, say 1-20 and see if it worked by checking on his calculator and drawn "stairs" of blocks to help him visualise the problem.

It's a method that Gauss is said to have worked out when he was a kid :)

Almost. He did 101*100/2.

here :)

The sum of 1 t0 100 is not 51*50, but he is on the right lines.

uhm, a bit confused here. who has done 51*50?

By the way, site looks fab, OhYouBadBadKitten. Thanks for sharing!

no probs :)

Oldbirdy wrote you'd end up with 50 pairs of 51 so the answer would have to be...whatever that equals!

If a child is making such deductions, it is very far thinking and I was suggesting ways to advance insight as I think getting children to visualise problems helps. Hence my suggestion of drawing steps which they can cut out and manipulate.

Thanks, Richmal.
Oh, I really wish I had great understanding of maths like you do.

Oh god, that is my faulty memory and rubbish maths skills - that is what he did, pairs making 101 not 51! And yes the answer was 5050, which thoroughly pleased him, because it's nice and neat. I have his bit of paper somewhere....

He was telling me on Monday he wishes he was born in 2037 because then he'd be 11 in 2048 which is the 11th power of 2, and that would be cool.

I am a bit embarrassed that I don't know what he's talking about half the time.

I really think what would help would be a website which helped G&T children visualise maths, or give their parents more ideas of how to explain it.

I was constantly drawing out things for dd. Just as a matter of interest, do other parents try to put things into drawings and diagrams when explaining maths to their child?

It's fascinating that it always seems to be maths that people want their children accelerated in, and to exams early. Why not English or History?

I think maths comes to topic quite often because a lot of parents(like me) struggle to help kids at home, Bertrand.
And it's not about acceleration.
If the child wants to and capable, why do we need to stop them?

My DD did the Primary Maths Challenge in Year 3 and got a Gold, so it's possible to do it early.
I would suggest read a lot around Maths...Murderous Maths, Penrose, Number Devil, Born on a Blue Day...basically any book about Maths. Even try some Physics books because it applies the maths he is learning.
KhanAcademy is good for online Maths, though a bit US based, but the content is good. Try Art of Problem Solving for a rigorous text book etc. CodeAcademy.com is good for different types of coding and can stretch them.
Apps such as DragonBox Algebra gives a different approach...highly recommend this game in both 5+ and 12+
FutureLearn and other MOOC have some short math based courses which are apparently a lot of fun...DD has 2 on the go right now.

It's fascinating that it always seems to be maths that people want their children accelerated in, and to exams early. Why not English or History?

Perhaps because the content of English and history is too adult. Dd could have read most literature when she was 8, but some GCSE works I would not have wanted her to. Equally in history, the causes of the Russian Revolution, say, would have been well beyond her life experience.

However, solving quadratics requires no deeper understanding of life.

"If the child wants to and capable, why do we need to stop them?"

We don't. But I din'5 understand why powering through the curriculum and doing GCSEs in year 6 is the way forward.

Sometimes you can't hold back a speeding train.

However, taking the GCSE in Year 6 is not necessary, it's possible with maths to just stretch yourself sideways and go deeper into a subject without the need for an exam certificate.

Totally agree that younger children can deal with mor advanced Maths if that works for them but not advanced English Lit or History. My dd is rocking ahead with Maths and we will gently discuss e.g Edward and Welsh Castles with her when we visit but tread very carefully with subject matter that is simply too tricky or should be outside her life experience as a primary school child. Do I always get it right? Probably not. Guided by her questions.
Back to Maths, the teacher has finally started to give her more challenging work and I will have a try with some of the suggestions here.

Home children will do advanced English, or reading/writing separately, dh is a primary school teacher and runs advanced reading and comprehension classes for the more able year 6 pupils at his school.

Have you thought about talking to the school about it OP? I have found that my kids' school have been keen on trying to support DS2 in maths, but because is a very quiet and shy boy (he has verbal dyspraxia) his maths ability had gone unnoticed for the first few years of his primary education. He was also on the SEN register until year 3 and even though he was 'good' at maths, his teachers didn't really notice how far he was able to go. In year 3 I decided to have a good chat with his teacher and the senco and they tested him a bit more, he has various conversations with our head of Maths, and since then they have been quite good at challenging him and giving him interesting work.

Actually I didn't want to accelerate my dd in maths, I think for most sane parents it's not something you want for them, her maths ability, though a wonderful gift, did not make school easy for her.

Gifted English students need lots of interesting age appropriate books to read, they can write poetry, stories and news articles and they will choose to do that themselves,

Gifted naturalists show a deep interest in nature, they pause in walks, they look at bugs, they study things in great detail. The same with gifted geographers - they notice the world around them, enjoy those sort of programs on telly.

Gifted linguists will learn more rapidly, speak more fluently, seek out new languages to learn.

Gifted artists etc etc.

It's not about pushing children it's about enabling them to stretch beyond the constraints of the curiculum. Well, that's how it should be anyway.

I meant some children, not home children...

As someone who's to take off their socks and shoes to count past 10, I am always in awe of maths whizzes! I hope he continues to do well.

Bert, it always makes me wonder. Why are you so sarcastic against able children? I thought you have them yourself? And how we raise our children is totally up to each parents. Why always so bitter towards somebody who doesn't agree with the way you think is best? I am not perfect, and I am not sure what I am doing with my ds is good or not, so I come onto MN and get inspired by other people's opinions. But I am at least trying to do my best for my ds, and listen to others' ideas. Why do you have to give negative comment without any backings to support what you say? I would like to listen, if you can explain why accelerating in maths is bad for a child no matter what.