Grammar schools

[var12]

They aren't a magic bullet that will solve all the G&T problems, but IMO they are a fantastic step in the right direction.

I suspect that they will be up and running too late for my DC to benefit but at least other children will have the chance to do a bit more than just follow the national curriculum because that's all the school aims to do.

I never liked Theresa May, but had she let people know that she would reintroduce grammar schools, I'd have been willing to campaign for her.

It would be interesting to hear from people in Northern Ireland and other areas where the grammar school system is alive and well.

The religious divide is supposed to have a bigger impact in NI. Many schools are religion-governed.

There is supposed to be a very selective system in The Netherlands that does not hinder social mobility, but a very similar selective system in Germany that is terrible for social mobility.

The issue of identification/selection would be quite tricky, as we know more about the complexities of gifted children as opposed to just bright, especially when it comes to 2E children. This was just not an issue 50 years ago. For example, my oldest child is thriving in a very good comprehensive and I am sure she would have got into a grammar if that was the system, as she's in the top 15-20% academically. My youngest child is "properly" gifted and also dyslexic and he wouldn't pass the 11+, although he is much more intellectually sophisticated and in the top 1%.

I think that really good comprehensives provide all children with room to grow and develop without crushing the confidence of the 80% of children who would fail to get into grammars.

Yes, but find me a really good comprehensive, that does that for all children.

If it was easy to do this for all children, then there would be many really good comprehensives. I am not sure that there is even one that reaches these heights. Everything is a compromise, and IMO (and IME) under the current system, the most able are the losers.

Lots of good comprehensive schools where I live. I sent DS1 to a good, but not the most selective school, despite him scoring higher enough in the entrance exams to easily get into the selective school (he was top 5% if not 1%).

I wanted him to thrive and broaden his knowledge, confidence and friendships without the extra pressure that a highly academic school would add.

Oh, and he is thriving, and being stretched way beyond the National Curriculum, as are all of his classmates.

So, you send him to a selective school, where he thrives, but you say the schools that you'd don't send him to definitely challenge all their pupils? How do you know?

I am not being difficult but my Dc go to a comprehensive with a really good local reputation, and it is generally a good school IMO. however, it falls short of challenging all students and I only know this because DS1 is one of the ones who has been left unchallenged for significant periods. The clue is there though in the OFSTED parent responses, but not in the Ofsted report.

var12 Wed 21-Sep-16 14:42:17 Yes, but find me a really good comprehensive, that does that for all children.

You are aware that a number of comprehensives out perform some Grammars with regards to the % of children making expected progress?

I will happily provide a couple of examples for you if you like.

I was unaware, but could've made an educated guess that this would happen. However, I'm not sure if you realise it or not but that wasn't my question.

I think that really good comprehensives provide all children with room to grow and develop

What i was asking was do comprehensives such as this ^^ one exist (when the emphasis is placed on the the word "all"? I seriously doubt it based on personal experience.

var12 Wed 21-Sep-16 16:45:34 I was unaware, but could've made an educated guess that this would happen. However, I'm not sure if you realise it or not but that wasn't my question.

Tell you what, how about you name 5 Grammar schools that had all DCs make expected progress?

var12 Wed 21-Sep-16 16:47:42 What i was asking was do comprehensives such as this ^^ one exist (when the emphasis is placed on the the word "all"? I seriously doubt it based on personal experience.

But the same can be asked of Grammar schools. Do you know of any that can make that claim?

Please stop routinely copying everything I write. its rude.

As to your questions, you are changing the subject.

Just in case anyone reads this and thinks it odd, there is some history to this. MumTryingHerBest has been posting like this with me on another thread for days. I am not that thin skinned, but she's been doing it a lot.

var12 Wed 21-Sep-16 17:06:43

Var, a lot of people highlight the point/post they addressing/responding to.

Occasionally, to aid comprehension but you do it a lot. I think I have asked you to stop before, or at least bring it down to a more normal level.

Just for clarification, i am asking you to do it less because in the other thread, you were not the only person who was doing it, so I was finding that I'd log on to find approx 5 of you all mimicking my words. So, overall it was a bit OTT.
Now you are here doing it too, so as it seems to be a developing theme, I am asking you specifically.

Fair enought Var. However, bear in mind it will/does happend a lot on threads that have a lot of comments. This is purely because it is hard to know how many posts will have been made between you typing a response and pressing send. It is suposed to make it stand out for the person the response is being made to.

Thanks for understanding. I can see what you are saying and I'll bear it in mind. An enthusiastic conversation on _chat or AIBU with hundreds of posters could well be candidates for that treatment, I can see that.

Anyway, in answer to your question, I am not implying that grammars develop all pupils and comprehensives don't, or even that some grammars do it and no comprehensives do. Children are all different and teachers are all different too so its nearly impossible to achieve this nirvana in any one class and impossible across a school.

Therefore, shouldn't we accept that there are compromises to be made and aim for an optimal solution? I know some think that a comprehensive is the optimal solution, but as I know that in practice it tends to mean resources fairly shared out in the planning but then later withdrawn from the most able in favour of the less able. So, is there an argument for ensuring greater fairness by making it difficult to remove those resources from the most able?

Or maybe it is fair to take from the most able to give those who need more help?

I live in a grammar school county and teach in a comp. I have three children so have been through the 'system'.

and you think it works or doesn't work?

Is the Kent grammar system the only model for grammar schools? i.e. is the grammar system in Bucks and Lincolnshire identical? (Or Birmingham or N. ireland?) I don't know... that's why i am asking.

By rights it you pass the 11+ and are working at the top end of the scale sat wise expected progress should be top grades/ numbers across the board. My school is struggling to fill posts at the moment- core subjects etc. People are leaving..... I don't want to say too much.
There are teachers who would never work in a grammar and vice verse. I wouldn't. I am better with the little Herbert's...