advice to help twin of very G&T DS

[bettysviolin]

Hi
I have twins, non ID. Both are bright and go to a selective school that they both got into easily.

But one comes at or near top of the class in everything. The other is near the bottom of his class in most things. One excels at extra-curricular stuff - picked for sports teams, music groups, wins art prizes etc. It's non stop. The other is picked sometimes (not often.)

I feel concerned for my DT who is lovely and bright and normal but feels in the shadow of his brother. He has far less self confidence, he is also mildly autistic (recently diagnosed with HFA) and has all his life had a raft of physical problems.

I'm genuinely concerned that he'll end up feeling like his brother got all the breaks and he didn't, or that he isn't up to scratch in some way. It's clear from his withdrawn reaction when his DT announces yet another A* mark or team pick that he does judge himself against his brother unfavourably, even though we never do and are careful not to compare them.

I want to help him gain confidence to be happy in his skin and happy at what he does and who he is, but it's hard when his twin (who is taller, thinner etc) keeps bringing home trophies.

How can I help increase his self confidence?

Fair enough. I just think a teacher feeling OK to say something like that says something about the philosophy of the school as a whole. But happy to be wrong. And I don't think that you can do anything about boosting your son's confidence (don't want to call him dt2 but you know which one I mean) in isolation- I think your other son needs to be on board as well. And 13 is quite old enough to be thinking about stuff like this.

Yes I agree with you on that. DT1 is old enough to be aware of it, and to be sensitive and supportive.

Have you perhaps thought about moving tigger twin to the still academic but very sporty school? And leave piglet where he wants to be.

My dcs aren't twins but very close in age.
ds1 excellent at everything.
ds2 is also very bright but is on the spectrum so doesn't 'shine' the way his db does.

I would stop, and have done it in the past, ds1 from getting involved in things that ds2 enjoys and is good at.
ds1 has enough things he can do wo always doing the same stuff than ds2.

There might also be some good in talking abut each child results on their own rather than in front of the other.
ie DT1 comes home with an A* is something is shared between him and you as parents but not with DT2.
Same with DT2.

I would also think about finding ways to boost DT2 in whatever way he needs. Be sure that you highlight all the things DT2 does well, and especially to highlight how well he is doing compare to himself.
eg DT2 managed to do a presentation in front of the whole class and did very well when it is something he normally struggles with. Some big cheer for him (a bit like you would try to get PB in a race rather being 'the best' of the group iyswim)

Having said that I think it's particularly hard because DT2 will find it hard most of the time anyway, even if he is 'doing well'. His reaction to the AS group makes me think he is thinking his autism is a hindrance he would rather forget about. And that it measn 'he is 'not as good as his db by default'. Maybe some work on what it means to be on the spectrum, talking about famous people who are tought to have AS (I'm thinking some politicians, sportsmen, scientists etc...) and how his way of thinking won't always be a hindraance could be helpful too.

I have no advice, but my twins are not quite 3 and i fear i will have this problem. My daughter is very confident and developmentally ahead of her brother by quite a long way. I was concerned before reading this thread. It sounds like such a difficult situation, i'm not being helpful though, sorry. Will be watching thread and i really hope you can help your son to feel better about himself.

Just remember, OP, that you said This was a year when DT2 had an absolute cow of a teacher who treated his mild ASD tendencies as personal affronts to her about an entire year of your more vulnerable child's school life. And she will have gone to staff meeting and so on and talked about your son, and nobody did anything about it- so that means they probably agreed with her. But you are still saying what a fabulous school it is.

Maman of three - your advice is interesting - I've done all of that - exactly as you've suggested.

Bertrand - sorry but I must say I find your persistence unhelpful. You have no idea what she said in staff meetings. You don't know the school. You are suggesting melodramatic and disruptive actions not solutions. Can I ask you to back down on this? I strongly disagree with your idea that pulling one of them out of the school and waging war against the school because he had a shit form teacher one year (last year - all forgotten now) would in any way help his confidence. If anything, what helps confidence is to teach people how to cope with unpleasant people and difficult situations, not rushing in guns blazing to 'rescue' them from a bitchy form tutor. We have to agree to differ very widely on that one.

Ok. You're not actually reading what I'm saying, but never mind. I hope you find the sort of contribution that helps you.

Bertrand in my experience, teachers will not take action against one of their colleagues. They might completely disagree, they might take a completely different attitude but they won't 'do something about it'.

I don't think it means they agree. It means that these are the people they are working with everyday and it's hard to take such a strong stance when you don't know all the ins and outs.
Besides, nothing is sayting that said teachers hasn't pulled up on it by said colleagues.

I shouldn't have mentioned it. It has taken the focus of the thread away from what it was. Yes, other teachers have compensated hugely for her attitude, and both boys had and still have this school as their first choice. It would be flouncy madness to pull one or other away from an excellent school because of one bad teacher. I am stunned at how often on MN people recommend really melodramatic actions on the slightest evidence.

I was hoping for some sane, sound advice on how to help one DT develop self confidence when his brother seems to shine at everything effortlessly. How to prevent him from comparing himself with someone who is his age and lives with him. That's the difficulty. This is an on going problem, not something caused by a teacher he clashed with.

Sorry to say this, because I don't think you want to hear it, but I also think that another school for DS2 would be better. The gentle non-academic one locally sounds like it might help him to regain some confidence.

Why do you think another school wouldn't help with his processing difficulties etc?

Crispy, it's not that I don't want to hear it, I've been thinking about it. The non academic school locally is a possibility but I'm not convinced it would solve any problems. It might just present a new set. I am looking at his overall confidence. If I moved him there, some pressure would be off, which would be good for him at first. But they don't get the best from their pupils. I know a boy who flunked his A levels there. They should have picked up on his problems earlier and didn't because their focus is all happy touchy feely. Which is great at the time, but maybe when you look back, you might think - wish I'd had someone nudging me. I think it wouldn't help his confidence long term, throughout life, if he went there and his brother stayed at the academic school and got straight As.

It's hard to explain. It's not that I want him to get a run of As. I don't care what he gets, so long as he has the confidence in himself to do his best, on his own terms, and feels happy with the results. That's what I want for him. But there isn't an obvious route to that. It's not all about academic achievement. It's about his daily life, friendships etc too. He didn't fit in well at a more mainstream environment at primary. He's quite quirky. So again, in many ways, the bunch of eccentric kids he hangs around with at his current school are a much better match for him. they accept him for who he is.

How good is the school at supporting him with his ASD? How good would the non academic school be (as far you know)?

TBH, I think it is more of an issue with the ASD rather than purely a school issue or a sibling issue.
DH has Asperger. He found school very hard until he went to Uni and started to work on specific things rather than general stuff he wasnt interested in. He was also with people with similar interest, people he could related to.
He is struggling with self esteem because he has felt all his life that he missed clues, said the wrong thing, didn't speak at the right time etc... His self esteem is very much related to his condition iyswim.

Which is why finding something he is good at and he enjoys has been essential for him.

I'm not sure whatelse you can do apart from concentrating on effort and results in line with his abilities. It's just hard.
Does he tend to be quite prefectionist too?

School is great with ASD. They have a permanent SEN person who is an ASD specialist who he sees once a week. He has a 6th form mentor and access to the school counsellor if he wants (hasn't so far.) The HoY has taken him under his wing and encouraged him to join up for clubs in his strengths, including gently cajoling him outside his very narrow comfort zone, so he does things he doesn't think himself capable of, for which he is then praised. HoY flagged his lack of self confidence to the head teacher who then made a special mention in the school yearbook of a piece of work he'd done, which meant that at least they both had a mention as DT1 was already in there three times. So the school is sensitive and supportive. Normally, due to a house system, they'd feed into the same class next year but the school has also skilfully arranged it so they don't, without it being obvious why.

Maman, it's interesting you say this. I wasn't sure if it was linked to ASD but see how it might be. He doesn't quite 'get' social situations, but wants to. He misjudges how to behave appropriately quite often and then is very puzzled when other people react negatively. It's good to hear that your husband had an easier time of it once he was at uni doing something he genuinely enjoyed. I can imagine that being true of DS2 too.

One strategy I have used (as a teacher, not as a parent) to build confidence in pupils is to get them involved with younger pupils. Is there a homework club or library group where he could help the year below with their work? Can he go to Cubs / Beavers or similar locally and volunteer to help? This might contribute to DofE later.

He needs to see himself in a very much wider context, not just in comparison with his brother. School might be able to help with this and offer volunteering opportunities.

The school looks great! I wish there was one like this around for ds2.

Do you think the ASD specialist could give you some clues for other things you could do too?
Tbh, if the school is happy to gently push him out his confort zone, then I would use that to my advantage and make a big deal of him doing xxx even though he felt he couldn't and wasn't good enough.
One of the thing that people with ASD struggle with is to generalise from one specific situation.
So he might learn that when he tried, he managed to do let's say some singing in front of the school. But he won't be able to generalised to 'if I try something new, whatever it is, there is a high chance I will succeed'.

Again, talking with DH he has said that there are a lot of things he would have felt very unconfortable doing as a child but knows it would have been a good thing in the long run, incl to 'convince' him he CAN do (new) things and he is able to.
So I have been keen on exposing ds2 to as many opportunities as possible, even the ones he isn't keen on, to show him he CAN do things, which in turn helps with self esteem.

Oh and be careful of little comments from DT1 to DT2,.

ds1 is very good at stepping in for ds2, to speak at his place, correct him etc... All of which isn't helping ds2 at all. (Self esteem wise but also he needs to do things for himself to be able to learn!)

Rose and Maman, this is all helpful, thank you. I do watch out for DS1 not dominating but it is an ongoing problem (ask a question and DT1 leaps in to answer it.) Rose I bet he'd be very good with younger children once he got into it. I might suggest that. He's a little young for his age, emotionally, so may need another year before that would work, but definitely I can imagine that being useful.

ASD specialist thinks he should try the ASD social group locally. Maybe I'll make him come along just once to see. And maybe I'll make him go to drama. Been hesitant as it is a bit of a trek to get there on a school night, but could be worth it, long term. (Sure it would be, in fact.) The thing he loves doing now is something he was resistant to for at least two terms, but he's been doing it now for two years and it is his favourite thing in the world.

Maman I'm interested that your DH thinks life would have been easier long term if he'd been persuaded to try new things more often in childhood.

I have sons similar to yours, also at a highly selective school, so I understand your comments about the importance of DT2 being accepted for who he is at that type of school. DS2 talks, with pride, about his "nerd herd" and "gaggle of geeks" at his school! He feels fully accepted, despite his eccentricities.

It sounds like your school is doing a great job at encouraging and valuing DT2. I second the idea of getting him to help younger children, suggested by Roseformeplease

Another thing which has helped for us is for me to deliberately put myself in situations I am weak at and then ask DS2 to help me. For example, I am a complete wuss, scared of heights etc, but I signed us up for a family outward-bound holiday. I was completely petrified of most of the activities and it was good for DS2 to see that Mummy was pretty rubbish at lots of things but still gave it a go. I was able to say "you're much better than me at this" (which he doesn't hear a lot because of his dyspraxia) and I think it was good for him to see me laughing at myself, and still enjoying myself despite being poor at something.

Like others, I have also stopped DS1 from stepping on DS2's toes by keeping him away from DS2's extra-curricular activities. I feel it's important for both of them to have something of their own.

You say DT2 has not wanted to go the counsellor so far. I wonder if that's something you could gently encourage? DS2 is much happier/calmer at home etc when he sees a counsellor. It's surprising because I don't think the counsellor says/does anything particularly different to what I would say/do; but the outside input really seems to help DS2. He talks about situations he's found difficult during the week (including issues with his brother) and it gives him the opportunity to process it.

Presumably DT2 has an IEP? Next time you review it with the SENCO, could you specifically ask for targets around building his self-esteem to be included?

Good Luck! - mine aren't twins so I don't have quite the same issues you have. It must be doubly hard when they are exactly the same age.

Thanks Switchitoff! Those are great suggestions. I like the idea of doing something I'm bad at in front of him and showing him it's Ok to fail, cheerfully and ask for help. Will have to think what that could be.

What an interesting thread and bettysviolin you sound a lovely mum

I'm not a parent of twins, so can't help there, but I was the younger sister of a high flying, successful older sister and I've never felt I quite measured up. I had to do all the hobbies my dsis was so good at and had been chosen by her, and gradually dropped them one by one when I didn't measure up. Looking back, I really can't understand why my parent were so insistent on our doing the same stuff, maybe it was easier if we were both doing band on a Tuesday etc?? Anyway, when I was old enough to make my own decisions I chose to do completely different things to my sister and still do to a certain extent. She was the sciencey one, I was the arty one...

I think you're absolutely right to try to find something for dtwin to enjoy and achieve at on his own. The school sounds great, and if he feels like he fits in, then that sounds good to me. He could move and find there is no-one he identifies with at a new school... I do think talking to the school might be a good thing - they might be able to gently direct him towards new hobbies and away from dtwins shadow. What about the scouting movement. Dh is an Explorer leader and they have dc from all walks of life who seem to be accepted for who they are. Loads of opportunities for leadership (Cubs, Scouts etc) and lots of fun.

My dd (11) is living in the shadow of her best friend ATM so I know how heart-breaking it is to see our dc lose confidence gradually

oh BUM

I did a big post yesterday and it seems to have been eaten

I doubt it would have been very helpful anyway

in essence:- don't move schools if DT2 is happy there. It would be nuts. And exceptional schools can still have some tactless teachers. If you ruled out schools on that basis, you'd be stuck with home ed

and yy to finding other activities for DT2. If you have to, think so far outside the box you can't even see the box. It's working for us, so far - after a lot of head scratching we found an activity that wouldn't normally spring to mind on the basis that DT1 likes to spend her breaktimes hanging upside down from her heels (it's a bit niche and if I said what it is I'd DEFinitely out myself!)

Harp - it's annoying when that happens. I like the idea of thinking of some really bizarre things he might try. I'll have a chat with him and see what he thinks. He does enjoy cooking...

It is a good school, but it also has the downside of any selective school in that you have to be careful boys at the lower end of the class don't end up feeling like they are incapable when they are in fact very capable. I know that's a common problem, not specific to him, and he is near the top on one or two subjects, so he has that, which not all boys do. But in a way, that's a side issue. If he were self confident, that wouldn't matter, because he'd feel OK in himself, however he did. And that's what I want to help with.

glee he might try scouts again. Unfortunately the local scout group clashes with the one thing he loves, so it's tricky, but they are great and they do so much outdoor stuff.