Hidden adhd?

[Wotamum]

Ds is 10 & in year 6. He's predicted level 6 in all his Sats however I've recently started to look at the possibility that he has ADHD. I feel quite silly that I've not looked into this sooner but as he's always done well at school I've just looked past his quirks & put some like the incessant talking down to his giftedness. He's always talked constantly, questioned everything, been quick of mind - will interrupt a question with the answer, won't 'hear' when spoken to directly, has terrible organisational skills, loses things, won't sit still, fiddles with things, etc. I think I'm questioning it more now because the impact on his poor organisational skills is much more obvious now he's older than it was before.

So my reason for posting is to find out about others experiences of ADHD and giftedness/high intelligence (for want of a better word). I think he's managed to hide his inattentiveness so well, for instance, because he's able to pick things up so quickly. If he half listens to something that's enough for him to get it.

What should I do next?

Your GP can refer you if you want to go down the diagnosis route.

He sounds similar to my DS1 who was diagnosed last year when he was in Y5. I had a hospital referral for him because he is/was a very poor sleeper and it was causing us and him problems. TBH I did not expect to be told he had ADHD but now I have read about it I can see he does. I just thought he was quirky!

My son was assessed at 19, when he was about to start university.
Similar profile to your son. He'll be 22 in summer. I put his behavioural/attention/concentration/impulsivity problems to a 'summer born' immaturity.

Looking back, he unravelled in sixth form where it all got a bit trickier academically. Until that point as was relatively bright he got by, results remained above average (though below what he was capable of). Bright, lively boy in primary school where it was small enough for teachers to know him well and teach more flexibly.
However, he was excluded from secondary school on 3 occasions for behaviour- inappropriate, impulsive, ridiculous and he had an answer for everything.
Similar to your boy, organisational skills and time management are/were appalling. He ended up almost paralysed with it all when he took a gap year (known as the crap year in this house) where he smoked weed (self medicated) and did nothing because he had no structure in his life.

Check out Dr Russell Barkley on YouTube (I love his description of adhd as a blindness to time), charity Adders and try to talk to people who 'get it'. That includes your GP. With my son the first GP he saw said that it only affects children. We ended up paying for a diagnosis when he was just 19 as waiting times are impossibly long. Has a diagnosis of mild to moderate adhd.

Lastly, I read that if you think your son has adhd you should look to see who in your family is similar as it is highly heritable. In my son's case, it has become clear that it is from his father's side of the family. Clever, funny, utterly distractible, constantly interrupting each other, dreadful social timing, breathtakingly rude...what's not to love!

LittleTuesday - adorable aren't they?!

I also have a 5 year old with ADHD - he was also diagnosed last year. He however, is very hard to ignore behaviour wise. He already has a 1:1 for support at school. Whereas DS1 is diagnosed as mild ADHD. I am dreading his move to secondary - really concerned about how the teachers will perceive his blurting out, humorous expression and general lack of trying/winging it. I have no idea how he will cope once he finds the work hard!

You need to Google psychomotor overexcitability. It is a trait of gifted children and in a classroom is virtually indistinguishable from ADHD. Look at Potential Plus website for more information.

Your title says 'hidden' adhd and I would say it's impossible to hide it.

My dc in year 6 has adhd, diagnosed aged 8. He talks non-stop, doesn't listen, interrupts/calls out in the classroom, does reckless and impulsive things, runs off etc. He has had 1:1 support for three years and is on high dose medication and only just gets through the school day.

He appears bright to talk to but can't concentrate on reading or written work so is different from your son in that sense. He also missed a lot of school through challenging behaviour before he was diagnosed.

Have the school expressed a concern? I would say your son is coping well but does have some milder signs which might be worth pursuing. You can see your gp and also ask the school for an assessment by the educational psychologist.

I had concerns that my ds had adhd before he started school but once he started school he quickly excelled and every year he achieved higher then expected levels so I put it to the back of mind thinking that he couldn't possibly have adhd AND do so well. He was diagnosied with both adhd and Asd at the beginning of this year (he is currently in year 4). Honestly if you think your ds needs an adhd assessment then push for it but in my experience the GP wasn't the best route. My GP did try and refer my ds to camhs and the ADHD assessment but they both refused the referrals. Apparently they take it more seriously if the referral request is made my the school. Luckily my ds's school referred him for adhd assessment (although they were adamant that he didn't have ADHD) and got him some Lego therapy with a speech and language therapist who assessed him and recommended the Asd assessment (even though I was adamant that he didn't have Asd lol). So yes, pursue it but be prepared to try and get the school onboard if your pct is anything like mine.

Thank you everyone. I was worried I wouldn't have any responses when I checked back.

Cece - are sleep problems related to adhd? Ds has terrible insomnia, wakes in the night & when he does sleep often has nightmares.

Funny - when I described it as hidden, it's because his school levels don't reflect a child who has a 'problem ' (although I still think he could do more - this is the first year his predictions are properly 'high' iyswim). I've also always helped him remember to do things- he'd need to tread on his lunch box to leave it behind, I'd send him upstairs to pack his pe kit - listing all he needs, then run through have you got x,y,z when he came down, giving him the chance to go back & get whatever he had (inevitably) forgotten. But as I'm now not micro managing him (as he's got older I've taken a step back) the issues are so much more apparent.

Little - I will definitely look up those videos on utube - a blindness to time really fits ds!

Mnistoaddictive - thank you I will look. I have always put his quirks down to OEs before & assumed they were mixed up with his giftedness, which is why I'd not really thought of ADHD until recently when I stopped micro managing etc it was then that I noticed he seems more out of step with kids his age.

Fairy - I think I'll have a chat with dr & school. I'll definitely keep in mind school may be able to get a referral for us quicker. I suspect he won't be able to see the ed psyc partly because there isn't much time left in Primary school but also because he is still doing so well & there are a lot of children that aren't, other kids will be prioritised over him.

Is CAMHS the most common assessment route btw? What are the other options? Can only schools refer you to an ed psyc (unless you go privately)?

It was actually about this time last year that the school started their 'odd behaviour diary' and I attempted the GP route. He started lego therapy with the SALT in June.
I don't think you'll have a diagnosis by the time your ds leaves year 6 but the wheels could be in motion. I don't think they prioritise according to academic achievements. My yr4 ds is achieving the same levels that my yr6 ds is and is ahead of his peers but I think we had a pretty swift diagnoses experience. Perhaps when it comes to allocating resources I'll come up against the greater need but I didn't for the diagnosis.
Also my ds doesn't sleep! He seems to function quite happily on 4 hours or less. I'd convinced myself that his quirky behaviours and constant need to talk would be cured by a few good nights of sleep.
Best of luck

If you do speak to your GP take a letter from school listing their concerns, it will really help. Some will refer to community paeds others to cahms, depends on area and age of child.
A community paed diagnosed my ds. At around the same time I took ds to see a clinical psychologist and psychiatrist for a private ASD assessment, together they also diagnosed ADHD.

Thank you fairy & orange for your helpful advice!

I think I'm going have a busy time next week speaking to drs and school!

Btw - what help is there for kids with ADHD. What has happened to your kids when they got diagnosed? Has any of the 'treatments' helped them?

In terms of the adhd the consultant only really gave us the option of medication which did shock me. I was expecting some kind of therapy first with meds as a backup. Nonetheless we tried it but that particular med didn't do anything except make him depressed. Apparently it's routine to 'play around' with medication to find the right one. She did advise that we could claim DLA so I use that to fund extra curricular activities to try and burn of the excess energy/socialisation for Asd and it will pay for therapy once I have an idea of which will help him. At school he is lucky enough to have a teacher who is a qualified senco (although not the schools senco) and she is almost instinctive in helping him to organise himself throughout the school day but not any one to one in class as he doesn't need it.

what help is there for kids with ADHD.

hollow laugh....

Well DS1 is diagnosed. Since he had mild ADHD they said they did not need to see him again. So that was that. They did offer the option of giving him melatonin if the sleep thing continued. Funnily enough once he knew why he couldn't sleep his sleep has got much better and he can generally manage it himself when he can't sleep. We saw a consultant at hospital for him. We had previously been to CAMHS about his sleeping. IMO useless and push for a referral to a consultant.

DS2 has ore severe ADHD. He was diagnosed last July our second appointment is this May. Since then we have seen the ADHD nurse in February - seeing her again in Dec. Put it this way they support is very thinly stretched so unless there is a massive impact on his life you are unlikely to get much. DS2 has 1:1 at school for half of each day. His behaviour though is appalling at school and he was violent to other pupils and staff so they really didn't have much choice in the matter!

I think CAMHS' role is about mental illness. At least that's what they told me. ADHD is not an illness.

A lot of 10-11yo boys have terrible organisation skills but no ADHD.

Here are a couple of books that were recommended to me

www.amazon.co.uk/Gift-ADHD-Transform-Problems-Strengths/dp/1572248505/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1428758162&sr=8-1&keywords=the+gift+of+adhd

www.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-Attention-Hyperactivity-Disorder-Children/dp/0091817005/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=076ZNQTW087ACGG7Y5A3

I am waiting for my son to be refered to the adhd specialist clinic. I am keen to try medication as the gap between him. his peers is widening at school - I am hoping that the mess will help him concentrate so he can catch up. I do feel it's a bit of a long shot as adhd is just one of his difficulties.
even of medication isn't suitalbe then at least having a diagnosis does mean reasonable adjustments can me made at school and hopefully teachers will be more understanding.

Thank you Orange I'll take a look!

Fairy out of interest, are you claiming dla for ds for the asd/ADHD or because he has them in combination?

Cece - I'm saddened by your laughter, but not surprised, unfortunately. I've spoken to the gp about melatonin, but she informed me that can only be prescribed to children by specialist doctors.

Ragged - that's very true. I'm not certain he has it, but I can answer yes to 8/9 criteria on the inattentive list so I think I need to look a bit more deeply.

In my dc's case, only medication was offered by camhs. It works like switching on a light, an amazing difference. It is not a 24 hour medication though so evenings are difficult.

Re. school, my dc has 1:1 support 100% of the time. I was very proactive about that and wrote to the top. He is also statemented. You can formally request a full assessment of your child's needs and the school and local authority have to respond within a certain number of weeks.

Your title says 'hidden' adhd and I would say it's impossible to hide it.

I very much disagree. Hidden may be the wrong word, invisible is what I would use. Our ds school recognised he needed assistance, but we found all the clues and indicators to be completely normal behaviour for dh, myself, several of my siblings and cousins. If you come from a family of with people who who see the behavior as normal, then the condition might not be invisible to you and his teachers until the system he is coping with changes. The more we read about it, the more family members of my and my parents it seemed generations could be diagnosable. I can see coping skills they/we developed and passed on in a natural manner. I can also see sometimes, those unstated solutions to an unrecognised problem didnt always work, or only worked until a certain age, like moving up to secondary school, or leaving school and not coping with life.

Thank you funny. Did you write to the local education authority then, to get the assessment? Also, when you say evenings are interesting are symptoms more pronounced when the medication wears off (than they were before medication) or just more noticeable due to the contrast between medicated and not medicated?

Mumagain1 - sorry I missed your message before. Yes I think I (in particular) have been compensating for him. I've always helped him be organised, I've excused his inability to stick at things, as lack of interest in those things. It was also only recently I realised how often he starts things (Lego, home work, books etc) and doesn't finish them. I do have family members who are a bit like him, so like you said to us he didn't stand out as being that different. But as his little sister is getting older & surpassing him in organisational skills, concentration etc it's becoming more obvious he's 'different.'

Sorry for the late reply Wotamum. It's been all go here
I applied after his adhd diagnosis but before his Asd assessment but DLA isn't awarded on disabilty but rather on need; basically the extra care that the child needs in comparison to other children of the same age. My ds's needs would be intermingled with adhd/Asd. But it was the adhd consultant who advised me to apply for it for his ADHD during his diagnosis.

The hidden part is almost the definition of twice exceptional (otherwise known as 2e, Dual Exceptional, Dual or Multiple Expceptional and DME).

The SEN partially disguises the high ability and vice versa.

There are a lot of articles on it, and everyone can see how it makes sense. However, teachers don't always recognise that they are looking at it and may think that the parent is deluded if the child is already "exceeding national expectations".

You should read up about it as it really helps to have the vocabulary when trying to get help. Potential plus is a good start.

www.senmagazine.co.uk/articles/1100-young-gifted-and-special-the-complex-world-of-the-dual-or-multiple-exceptional-child.html

Thank you fairy & var.

Fairy - Glad you're able to help get your ds the support he needs.

You've been most helpful.

Var - I've been aware of 2e for some time but not really looked into it that much as I hadn't thought it applied to my family (just took a general interest iyswim). I have often wondered why ds didn't seem to quite live up to his potential, but I've only just started to put the pieces together. I'll do some more reading - thanks!

Re the hidden bit, I agree with all that var123 says about 2e, but it's also worth reading up about inattentive ADHD, which is basically ADHD without the motor/restlessness element, and so can make it harder to diagnose. (On an online questionnaire, DD scored 18/21 for the inattentive bit, but zero for the hyperactive part).

I am going to phrase this in a 'some people think' kind of way, as I don't believe it is proven, but fish oils and magnesium (Floradix do a liquid one) are sometimes thought to help, and I think they have made a small improvement for DD. But no harm in trying while you wait for assessment.

These are common behaviour traits of children who are gifted, so be prepared to be told he's not ADHD. In my experience most children with ADHD struggle in school (I worked for many years in special education units and classrooms in the US). There's an awful lot of crossing over, I have seen many gifted children that showed signs of ADHD and I'm inclined to think there's a link. (In fact there's links between most brain based differences). So it's possible it may have been missed and frequently is due to the assumption that ADHD causes children to struggle in school.