What to do when G&T child starts to struggle?

[WalkingThePlank]

DD is in Y3. She was put on G&T register in Y1 as an 'all-rounder' and at that point the G&T coordinator wanted her to work with year above for maths but the Head decided against for 'social' reasons. The G&T coordinator then washed her hands of situation as she is too busy with SEN.

DD doesn't seem to have had any extra support under the G&T programme. DD was the most advanced in maths until very recently. They have twice termly tests which don't link to their class work and she failed her last one, having got 77/80 I think. Her errors were actually about how many days are in different months. Her confidence has been severely knocked as her relative position was important to her. She has more of a fixed rather than growth mindset which we do attempt to handle at home.

We've had parent's evening recently. The teacher indicated that she is not going to have made much progress with her levels in any topic but said she was far ahead in literacy - not that this is acknowledged, rewarded in any way. Maths-wise she said that DD had lost her confidence but added that she struggled to concentrate having been put on a chatty table but this is apparently fine as it great socially [confu. There has been discussion about having an extra G&T maths group now that others have caught up but I genuinely have no confidence this will be put in place.

Since the start of the academic year there has been a change in Head and form teacher and I feel that time is slipping by and DD is being lost and her confidence crushed. I'm thinking of going into school again but not sure how to remedy the situation.

Any ideas?

I do understand your concern if you think she's not being properly supported or encouraged, but how is getting 77 out of 80 in a test "failing"?

They have to get 78/80 in 20 minutes. She rushed at the end.

I also can't see that 77 out of 80 is failing.
I hope nobody is telling your dd this, she may have overheard somebody talking like this and this is why she is focused on her position in the class.
I can't see how schools are expected to support those who are G&T tbh because support workers are needed for those who are struggling.
The school couldn't help my dd, so she left and did it her way, it's the way it is. If the child is so far ahead that a bit of extension work isn't enough they can't really help.

To get 78/80 or fail is ridiculous for yr3.

I suspect that she has twigged this & is fixated on not failing but panicking.

The issue we are having with my DD (yr2) is learning to fail (or not be the best at everything). She finds one particular lesson hard due to noise levels & it doesn't come easy to her & we have had many tears about this (from DD not me!) as she is used to getting the lesson v quickly.

I agree that DD has to learn to fail. I'd like the school to help with that too.

I do think the best way to help is to educate them yourself.
I don't mean maths and Literacy, but to cope with their feelings, not to be called silly for getting upset or anxious about things.
I know when the confidence goes it can be heart breaking to see, my dd has no faith in her abilities in academic subjects and she is quite bright but because she has another gift she expects to be this good at everything and gets so despondent when/if it doesn't come naturally.
As hard as it sounds the best thing you can do to help her is look at her attitude.
You do have my sympathy, alot of people don't realise what it is like and think you are some tiger mom when you ask for support.

77 out of 80 surely hasn't been described as a failure?! Perhaps that is just how your dd has interpreted it. Our school does weekly mental maths tests in which the children have to complete a lot of questions in a short time span. It's a relatively minor aspect of the maths that they do in school, and it isn't related to the topic that they're doing at any given time. If they get them all right in the time available, then they go up to the next level the following week, but it certainly isn't regarded as a failure if they get one wrong and have to repeat - lots of kids stay on the same level for weeks. I wonder if it was something like this, and your dd is putting unnecessary pressure on herself because she didn't get enough to move up to the next rung on the ladder?

Regarding the other stuff, it sounds like they possibly had concerns about your dd's social skills, as they seem to be prioritising social issues over and above her academic achievement. Might this be the case? How does she generally get on with the other kids?

One of the problems with the G&T thing, in my view, is that kids do move in and out of the "top" group - especially in the early years of primary school, as kids develop at such different rates. I can see why this might knock a child's confidence a bit. Is she old or young in her year group?

It's hard to know what the problem is here. It may be that the other children have naturally caught up and/or overtaken her, or it may be that the school simply hasn't done enough to stretch her. Or perhaps there have been other barriers to her making progress. Why was her "relative position" so important to her, do you think? Is it important to you? And what are you doing to address the fixed mindset?

FWIW, I disagree that schools are unable to support children who are several years ahead of their peers. Many schools can and do. However, you need to work out exactly what the issues are before you can identify potential solutions.

And yy to learning to fail - hugely important!! You say that you would like the school to help with this, which is a reasonable expectation. Have you discussed this with them?

It shouldn't be about "learning to fail", but learning from failing.
What has she learnt from this experience?
What can she do to get better results next time?
Those should be the questions asked.

Gifted and talented (and other easy achievers) can get a sense of self attached to their success, rather than the effort they put in, or how they achieve success. Which is mostly noticeable when they fail and see the failure as a reflection on their worth.
Greater focus should be put on the process of learning and getting the results, than the results themselves.

So, she rushed in the end. Can she practice in stressful situations and learn how to concentrate rather than panic? Learn to breathe, for example?

From what you are saying, the school is failing your daughter. They have identified her as a G&T child, not just in one or two subjects, but as an all-rounder. That is no small thing. They are obligated to provide support for your child. When doing an inspection, Ofsted require evidence that demonstrates the support the G&T students receive, not just as one-off experiences but in every single lesson!

You need to be talking to the headteacher of this school, and ask her exactly what provision has been put in place for your daughter to support her as a G&T student. Explain that you are unhappy with the lack of support and tell her what your child's teacher said about her levels not improving. If she tries to say that your daughter is not trying, or anything negative like that (anything to blame your daughter) then you must point out that they are not stretching her or encouraging her. They are teaching to the lowest common denominator. It is unacceptable.

You are perfectly within your rights to talk to the board of governors and to report this to Ofsted if you do not receive a satisfactory response.

Gifted and talented registers can be throughly destructive. I feel that does a child no favours to know their class position at an early age. Winter born girls are often ahead in the early years and other children catch up later on. Development is a journey and not a race.

I feel that schools should encourage children to beat their personal best rather than praise children for being top. In life there are always going to be people who are better than you. Primary school is a small group of children. It is unlikely that the bright primary child will be top at uni or win a noble prize. Plenty of successful adults were late developers.

Just to reiterate, 77/80 is deemed a fail. She has to retake the same test half a term later. Therefore she is, and will remain, behind other students.

78/80 = 97.5% I believe you that this is what it is but I question the wisdom of setting a test with such a pass level. Is it a normal school?

The other things you write don't exactly reflect well on the school either.

Clearly the emphasis is on passing rather than doing well and as your DD is only 7 or 8 years old, she's just responding to that.

Its just dawned on me, that the school set this test just to keep your DD busy! There's no way that other, less able, children would be able to pass that test either so its about setting a high hurdle which will mean your DD is likely to fail and then the school have an excuse for making her go through all the preparation work again (along with many others who are still earning and need the repetition).

Looking back, DS2 had the same problem in year 3. He had to get 100/100 in a weekly times table test, whilst the rest of the class were still ploughing through the 6x or 7x. It took him 6 weeks to achieve perfection (he got 98%, 97%,99%, 95%,98% the other weeks).Then as the other more able students graduated from the 12x table test. the teacher lowered the pass level to 95% which they could pass within a week or so and join DS2 in the newly created extension work.

God, that still irritates me even when I remember it now!

Well, if you are going through what I'm just gratefully reaching the end of (DS2 is in year 6 now), then my advice would be to decide whether you want to emphasise education at primary school or just let things slide and enjoy your child's childhood.

If you want the latter, then do nothing (except let DD in on the teacher's motives so she can stop stressing). However, if you want the former, you will need to pin down what the school will do for her for the next 3 years - have a good look at who'll be teaching her. Then find out what other solutions there may be - a new school or HE, and choose the best solution.

Is this a UK state school?
The whole 78/80 or stay on the same level sounds horrific! A really bad system.

Thanks everyone. I am taking notes of what everyone has said.

Everyone has this high pass mark. Her DB also just failed a similar test with the same score. It does make it ridiculously hard to pass. I think she is on level 13. I have the impression that most of her class are on around level 6/7 but obviously I don't know this as I don't talk about other children at school or with parents. However, since the test doesn't seem to relate to class work I can't understand what the point is. A lot of children are 'failing' and being told so.

The point for me is that she is not being supported. They accept there is a problem but won't provide a solution. Am going to see form teacher, Head and the Chair of Governors.

I am so angry that the lack of support has gone on for years. Her spirit is crushed :-( but apparently its OK because she is popular.

I don't like the sound of this school, is it a normal state school?
I have never heard of such pressure at a primary school and your dd should be getting some support.
In my previous post, just to confirm, I didn't mean that G&T shouldn't be supported but that in a class of 30 odd the 1 to 1 may not be available.
I think they may be concentrating on the social rather than stretching up iyswim. This doesn't sound right though as they have told you she is popular so obviously isn't in need of support on the social side.
I hope you get some answers and action when you visit school.

Level 13 of what?? It's not a NC level, for sure.

It sounds like she needs the pressure to go down, not up. Let her be secure at whatever level she's at.

Why does it matter that she's behind other students, as well? Being gifted doesn't mean being the best. It just means being ahead of the usual trajectory for your age.

Bear in mind, also, that she may even get to be best in the school in year 6, but then she'll go to a secondary school, where there will be children from all the other schools, who may also have very bright children who are even further ahead than her. You surely need to make her realise now that trying to be 'the best' is a destructive motivation.

She needs to learn to try to be 'her best', not 'the best'.

Its a normal state school.

No the levels are not related to NC level. We did ask for a prediction on that and in maths she's going up just 1 NC level this academic year.

It's not important to me that she is the best at maths. I want her to achieve to her ability and, more importantly, to enjoy maths. Up until recently she did really enjoy maths.

It is DD who is judging herself. She is an autumn born girl so found school very easy from the start. She was easily the most able in her class initially. She has become used to achieving above her cohort and is still miles ahead in literacy - which of course has no method of acknowledging/rewarding.

Her confidence has been so knocked by the 'fail' and she is unduly concerned to see another boy (who does hours of maths at home every night) go ahead of her. Even when she's done Mathletics this week as homework, she was getting really easy stuff wrong because, "I'm rubbish at maths" - classic fixed mindset.

I find her mindset frustrating because we have always stressed that success comes from trying hard rather than inate ability. When we praise we praise specific efforts. By contrast, her DB failed his test which he was annoyed about but he hasn't had his confidence dashed at all and if someone went ahead of him he would see it as a motivating target for him to work towards.

I want the school to help her regain her maths confidence as they are the education experts but I don't know how to pin them down to a specific and timely plan.

Going up a NC level in Y3 is actually pretty impressive progress.

Sorry, my mistake - I meant a sub-level from b to a within the same level.

success comes from trying hard

Not only trying hard, but trying smart. If one strategy doesn't work that well, why not try something else?

Do you know exactly how this level 13 thing works? Is it on the school website or has there been a parents meeting about it? Because if not it should be. It's not how most schools do things. You need more information.

And, forgive me, but is this 77/80 being a fail stuff coming from th school or from your dd- is it possible that she has misunderstood? What NC levels is she currently working at?

It's definitely a fail. She has to redo it because she got 3 wrong. They have a twice termly maths test and if you pass (get 78/80 or above) you go to the next level. It is not just my DD or me imagining it to be a fail.
At parents evening the teacher talked about her failing it (as did DS's teacher).

So where do the levels come from?

And if she's level 13 when her peer group is on level 7 is it possible she's reached her current limit?

What NC level is she working at?