Year 4 and SAT level 5b

[Junglejane73]

Hi. I'd really appreciate some advice about my dds scores and wether or not she is classed as g&t. Her teacher has been testing her throughout last term and she is a consistent 5b across the board. She also sat a yr6 reading test and got 38 out of 40. Parents evening is coming up and I would like to ask her teacher if this puts her in the G & T bracket but don't want to look silly by suggesting it. Maybe I'm seeing things through the old rose tinted specks but it seems to me she's doing blummin brilliant! Are these levels exceptional for an 8yr old?

The old definition of g and t was the top 10% of that school. So g and t in one school is not g and t in another.

What do you want to actually happen though? A label? More stretching work? Formal plan to challenge her? Support to apply for a top secondary school?

I think framing your question around this rather than "is DD a genius?" might be more productive

What do you want from her being classed as G&T? What does that mean to you? Are her needs being met in any event?

I am sure she IS bloomin' brilliant btw

DS was level 5 at KS2 (year 2) and is an A* student now in year 10 in all subjects but German, which he hates, so he's a B in that!!!! He surely does have a lot of natural ability. G&T? Not sure what that means? For me, 'gifted' is Stephen Hawking and 'talented' is possibly a good few of DS's year at school, including him. He's the only one that can influence whether he gets his arse in gear and uses the natural ability he possesses.

5a at Year2. Sorry, this isn't to brag. There were 3 other kids at that level also. They were an exceptional cohort, who pushed each other and had loving, supportive parents. All are doing great at Secondary, brilliant in fact, gifted? No..

Well I guess my question has been answered with pure negativity. It was solely based on the fact that I don't want her to be bored and I was under the impression that children in the top 10% of each school should be given more challenging work. I couldn't give two hoots about some smart arsed poncey school as I'm sure she will be happy and thrive wherever she goes. As for bragging, most certainly not. I asked for advice on a thread called gifted and talented

So maybe ask at parents evening whether she is being stretched and challenged and what systems are in place for her to continue to be so? Ask the teacher is they consider that your DD is bored perhaps? Is she being challenged already?

No-one that replied was being negative and no-one said anything about a smart arse poncey school. Personally, I replied that DS was 5a at the end of KS1 (Y2) and I don't consider him G&T, very able, yes, G&T, no.

My DS is doing just great at a state secondary.....

You are being defensive and you don't need to be

If her teacher is 'testing' her and giving her advanced work/papers to try, it looks to me as if her ability has been recognised, and the teacher is giving her challenging work already. This is all you need. A label won't get you any more, and the school may not even 'do' G&T -- ours doesn't.

This thread is a perfect example of why I rarely bother looking here .

Are these levels exceptional for an 8yr old?

Of course they are exceptional. Anyone saying they are not is expelling a lot of hot air. See here. As you will see (noting the typo of 5a where 5c should be written) L5 in year 4 is exceptional.

L6 in reading at this point would be profoundly gifted in this area - less than 0% gain L6 in reading each year - I think the figure is around 2000 pupils (which is less than 1% nationally). And that is year 6 pupils.

I replied that DS was 5a at the end of KS1 (Y2) and I don't consider him G&T, very able, yes, G&T, no.

Well it isn't for parents to determine whether a child is gifted or not (thank goodness) - professionals do that, using scientific normed tests. So your own opinion about whether your DS is gifted is neither here nor there. It certainly has no bearing on whether the OPs DD is gifted either. The fact that you believe that your DS, who would have been working 6 years ahead of expectations at the end of year 2, is not gifted but merely 'very able' seems to indicate that you have little understanding of giftedness.

It does not mean being a genius - that's what the word genius is for, to differentiate the moderately and highly gifted from the profoundly gifted (i.e. genius level intelligence).

I think it is always worth getting children on the "G n T" register if possible. There is absolutely no criteria, at all, and in my last school, which had an intake well below average, everyone automatically was classed as GnT, without exception ( Now called Maggot - which stands for more able, gifted and talented)

This meant they were able to access various online resources, etc.

I still don't understand what the label does - good teachers should be stretching children whether they are top 1% / 10% / 20%

It's not as if the label unlocks extra funding, like Pupil Premium does

It does unlock extra resources, there are internet resources only available to children who have the Maggot label.

it is an ofsted requirement that schools identify their most able children and show that they are differentiating for them. This creates far more paperwork than it does actual educational benefit, so schools tried to keep the numbers down to limit paperwork. This is when the 10% minimum was brought in. Schools HAVE to list a minimum of 10% of students as MAGGOT, even, for example MLD schools, even PMLD schools, were the children are so disabled a 10 year old can get on the register simply be being able to clap his hands.

This has always been a nonsense. A maths teacher, for example, could have say 4 students in his year 10 class on the MAGGOT register. He has to show that they are being treated differently and achieving more. One of them might be a maths genius. One could be on the register because he once painted a decent picture in art, a couple of years ago. One could be on the list because he is a star of the school football team. One could be on the list as a legacy from a previous school or teacher, and no one has the faintest clue why.

So, therefore, on top of the differentiation being done for individuals finding this current topic easy or difficult, and on top of the interventions being put in for those who are underachieving at any level, ( many pupils will be achieving or capable of achieving higher than the MAGOT children) the teacher also has to treat this disparate group together, who may have nothing in common, dislike each other, not work well together and all be at totally different standards in maths.

Like I said, my previous school got the best of both worlds by listing EVERY SINGLE PUPIL as MAGOT.

This meant they were all entitled to access the internet resources.

if a school says it has three year 2 children working at level 5 , I would question how truthfully they were assessing them

I don't really know about English, but if your child is level 5b in maths then she has been taught level 5 content. If you are not doing this at home then the school must be doing this and hence she is being given more challenging work, because the school is teaching her at a higher level.

You can easily google what is taught at level 5 to find out what the school will have been teaching her. It seems as though her school is a good one if they are able to teach her to this level in year 2

Sorry, she is year 4. This is still a good level for year 4. You could ask what she will do further up in years 5 and 6 and if they will still keep extending the work she does if she gets above level 6.

Schools HAVE to list a minimum of 10% of students as MAGGOT

No, they don't. That requirement disappeared years ago.