Hiding his learning...

[Purplelooby]

Hello, firstly this is not a 'is he gifted?' question. DS is clearly bright and is apparently advanced but my question is about whether anyone has any experience of the situation below and whether it affected their child at school (I'm paranoid because DS is a late Aug baby so is only a year off pre-school).

Basically as said in the title... my oldest baby (nearly 2) hides what he can do, even from me. So as an example, he taught himself all his shapes from a crap electronic toy thing, but I only found out (at 15 months) when I happened to ask him to point out a shape. Similar with drawing (refused to mark-make until 19 months then started drawing simple shapes and saying what they were), singing songs, knowing his books off by heart, counting. He will even actively refuse to engage in an activity (things like actions to songs or singing along) if he knows I'm there (I've heard him sing full songs in his cot).

I'm proud that he's a stubborn so-and-so like me and I genuinely don't care whether he's clever or not, but I worry that he will be overlooked at school. At baby groups he sits there refusing to speak or join in and won't even acknowledge his name (we are taking him to GP for sensory processing problems but that's a whole different post). Anyway did your child do this and more importantly, did he grow out of it?

Or she!

So he's not even 2 and your worrying about school not recognising his talents?

Dd used to refuse to 'perform' but she had no problems at school

He is 2. let him enjoy being 2. Plenty of time to worry about school down the line a lot can change in 2 years

Yes.

Do you not think it's about the interaction not feeling "right" or "authentic", until he can go off and process it in his own way?

I was told to remember that the academic side would still be there later and to concentrate on the sensory processing side. It was good advice.

Good luck x

Purplelooby

My dd was like this but it was more to do with confidence than anything else. At this age they don't know what they are doing is beyond their years, its later when they are told.
My advice would be to let him sit on the side lines and eventually he will join in. Let it come from him and don't push.
Every report we got from school said dd would eventually have a go at things but would be at the back of the queue usually quite reluctantly.
My dd has a G&T voice/singing, I know that sounds weird but hey ho.
She too didn't like an audience at this age but would sing for hours on her own.
When she started school and later, choirs she can't wait for solos and to perform. If your ds is like my dd he will come round in his own time.
Try not to worry and just go with the flow.

First two posters - I know it's daft, but he's my first and I worry about everything... who doesn't? I don't worry half so much about LG who's my second. Of course in terms of his play I do let him be 2. We mess around and run about and cuddle, I read to him (his fave thing in the world) and offer to do crafts (his least fave thing). But at night when he goes to bed, I start thinking. It's only a year until pre-school...

year3onuke did your LO have sensory processing issues? Do you think it's related? I definitely think it's affected his physical development and perhaps his spoken language (he has a large vocabulary and perfect pronunciation, but he really really struggles to say words together in a rhythm. He sort of speaks in strange beats with a pause between words). While I wait for battles with the GP, what sort of things did you do to work on the sensory side? I know noise overwhelms DS and music can freak him out. Touch as well but I've been able to help him a lot with that.

morethanpotatoprints I had to laugh because I think DS might be tone deaf! I do totally agree that it's at least partially confidence though and he's definitely back-of-the-queue. I think he won't do something until he's certain he can do it correctly, in his eyes at least.

Yes he did.
Is it related: is the Pope Catholic? :) (sorry, I have views on this topic).

Your child is young, all this may just gently untilt...... However, I think you should check out his language comprehension (different from vocabulary comprehension) with a speech therapist - oh and have you done a hearing test? Usually you do hearing tests first, then the therapist has an opinion about the underlying issue and then you may need a more specialised speech therapist. Ds didn't understand the hearing test but we had to endure it anyway (still makes me sad).

It's tricky to do the relaxed and joyful parenting thing all day then gather information in the evening then wake up the next morning resisting the urge to test him! When you start thinking at night, are you getting high quality input? It can be tricky to find high quality books on child development that don't freak you out. The best place to start is "It Tales Two to Talk" published by Hanen. Search mumsnet for praise. "Sensory Integration and the Child" is also helpful. Videos of the late great Stanley Greenspan are inspirational.

Re school: when DS was 3.3, we decided he was not going to start school at 4.0. He started reception at 5.0 instead. This gave us and his teachers the ability to step back and think about him without the distraction of the early start. It gave us all clarity and time. This choice is getting somewhat less of a battle, you will find various support groups if you decide to consider this option in a year.

Good luck. Ds is 9 now, and whilst his challenges can be traced back to those of 7 years ago, they are no greater in kind than those faced by his peers.

Sorry, last line should say "they are no greater in degree than those faced by his peers"

hello OP

just to come back to say I totally agree with the post above wrt the speech therapist or hearing test, I hadn't equated the two but my dd had speech therapy for nearly a year, she still struggles with some pronunciation at 10 but it isn't bad enough to warrant support.
So yes, do check these out even if its nothing to do with it, you will at least know this isn't a part of his behaviour.

DD did this, and still does, although it's less noticeable now because the things she learns now are less obvious.

Our take on it was she wanted to know that she knew how to do something before letting on. From being very little she's been very hard on herself. So for example she knew the alphabet before she was 2 without ever seeming to learn it (I think she learned it from an interactive 'Owl' toy) and had taught herself to read by 3.5 - again without any apparent (to us) learning process, but clearly she had been paying a lot of attention when we read to her.

The school have been excellent (although we are lucky that she is at an excellent school) and have done tests with her and given her appropriate work, but she still does it to a certain extent. It's weird that being hard on herself seems to come from within her - she's always been like that from being tiny. At school you will definitely need to watch out for your child trying to 'blend in' by pretending not to know things. For example, the school has always differentiated for her with maths, but we questioned if the differentiated work was enough, given what we knew she could do (e.g. in conversation she would say things like 'It took us 9 minutes to get to nana's house') which prompted the tests, which showed that actually she had been hiding what she could do from school and us, but less so with us.

That's interesting about speech therapist. I never even considered it because his actual vocabulary is huge and his pronunciation is so clear... do you think it would be warrented for his particular situation? His comprehension is very, very good though so I don't think it's that. He does have sensory issues regarding noise and he very often seems not to hear his name, but in general he is hypersensitive to sound and actually hears things we say under or breath when we think he's playing. We had a discussion about him scratching his head while he was absorbed in his playing, a few days later he scratched his head and told his grandma 'nits. No nits' which pretty much summarised our discussion...

cheebame this sounds EXACTLY like DS. I heard him 'sing' the alphabet song in bed and he does have a toy that plays it. I do think he will hide more from other people. At nursery (he went at 12 months for 2 months) he just sat on his own with the musical instruments. Never spoke or anything. At the childminder he is about a month behind home so much better, but for example he is pretty much dry day and night now, but at the childminder he never even told her when he had pooed or let on that he knew what the potty was for. I think she thought I was insane when I said I was going to try PT but he got it from day 1.

I think that children sometimes dislike having attention focused on what they do, some seem to enjoy having their own time/space for exploring and learning. I know that lots if children are loathe to tell their patents what they do at school

Oops, posted to soon. Just wonder if you tend to be very vocal in your praise, which might be a lot to deal with for your DS.

DD didn't interact with the children at pre-school either, Purplelooby I don't think she 'got' other kids (she's an only) and their impulsiveness and noise. She spent a lot of time in the book corner. She spoke with the staff more than the other kids I think.

DD also is selectively deaf. I don't think she pretends not to hear , I think she sometimes is genuinely so involved in what she is doing that she doesn't hear. She also doesn't like noisy environments. Like your DS though, she doesn't seem to miss much: if you call her for tea and she's engrossed, she might no hear, but if a conversation is going on she misses nothing at all.

Why is this in gifted and talented? He sounds perfectly average to me

Some kids like to perform and others don't.

Oh just read back again. What IS the difference between language and vocabulary comprehension?

poguemon it's okay, I don't think I have a wonder kid. It's just that I thought parents of gifted kids would have more experience of this sort of thing. But thanks for pointing out to me how 'average' he is...

mrscakes yes it could be that. I'm a teacher...

I thought poguemon's response was particularly helpful and heart-warming too, Purplelooby

Thanks cheebame

Just couldn't understand why you'd posted it here when you didn't think he was G and T, op. But now you've explained it I understand a bit better.

Lol cheebame. I'm not sure 'average' is a very nice word, but neither do I think DS is average. But no, I don't think he's gifted either.

Sounds a bit shy. Or engrossed in the environment so doesnt bother saying about the loo.
I expect that is common.
I think they do just easily pick stuff up and you just dont realise at the time,
They also suddenly make developmental leaps.
Dd hated nursery... At 1 they thought she didnt say anything she had lots of words, but not the attention there.
She has gradually become chatty to anyone.
The speech does sound odd, but i have no frame of reference as DD has very good language, comprehension, and expression. I imagine the rhythm will come with time

Hi sorry, have been away.

Vocabulary is a part of language. But only a small part. Kids like ours develop their language is a somewhat uneven way. So they may get far ahead in rather abstract things whilst needing help catching up on basics, in his case, knowing how to show and to tell.

My son also had issues responding to his own name combined with sensitive hearing (bloody hand driers....).

I think what you are describing in his speech is an issue with "prosody". I think that a "typical" child (whatever that is) may be more eager and able to show-and-be-shown at this age than your son is (or my son was).

I suggest you look at the Sensory Integration and the Child book. People far brighter than me are convinced that sensory/processing issues are the basic cause, and that speech and behaviour challenges are the effect, I think they are right.
Looking back, the best things I did were when I accepted the sensory issues were real and adjusted my parenting, notwithstanding the incessant "advice" and unasked for characterisations of my child from other parents. The worst things I did involved forcing him into situations he was not ready for - I regret those deeply because they caused such anxiety or at least failed to prevent it.

Difficulties in communicating doesn't mean that toddlers/children don't 'want to' share what they know or have learned. DS2 didn't speak in sentences before he was 3.5 (his first word was at 2.5) however this didn't stop him from learning all shapes, numbers, colours, many letter sounds, and learning social skills too. It's not because they can't communicate what they learn that they are not learning.