Starting school - advice please

[MyAngels]

Hi
DS is 4.5 and starts school in September. I appreciate he hasn't been officially titled G&T, but I know that he must have "high learning potential" (is that the better phrase?) and I thought posting here would put me in less danger of "bragging", than posting elsewhere..

If you had a gifted child (and you suspected they were, when going into Reception), how did you manage that with the teachers? Did you tell them your suspicions, and risk getting the "I'm a professional, its my job to educate/socialise him, I'll take it from here, thank you.." response (we got this from his preschool teacher), or keep quiet, wait till they notice and come to you?

My DS's abilities seem to have gone ballistic in the last few months, starting to read (on his own), adding up (begs me to do adding with him - can now do number bonds to 10 easily, to 20 with a bit more effort), learnt to tell the time this week - yesterday I found him searching on iplayer for his beloved Dolly Parton (we went to Glastonbury!) by typing "dolie" in the search line with no help from me....

I'm trying not to do too much with him for fear of looking like a pushy parent, but will, of course, answer him and show him if he asks me something.

We have had trouble at preschool with him - not doing as told, defying teacher, not sitting on carpet etc. His new reception teachers (job share) are aware of these aspects (which of course need attention), but I'm just not sure how best to approach them about his more intellectual abilities. We have a 30 minute meeting with the teachers arranged for the Friday before he starts in September, by the way.

Any advice very welcome, thanks.

Weighed, not measured!

My DD is also 4.5 can read and add all numbers up to ten. It would not even have occurred to me to be bandying about terms such as 'gifted and reduced' nor to request a special meeting with the teacher! I'm pretty sure they will soon notice that she can read and write etc and I Trust in their ability to keep her occupied. Fortunately, I have had no behavioural problems at pre-school, so I would suggest that you concentrate on improving his discipline before starting school!

What cheebame says is true, whether you like it or not. A small number of children are very badly behaved in school because they are bored. And just as you would expect a five year old with aspergers to have structures put in place for them to help them fit in to the reception class, why shouldn't it be the same for a gifted child?

And learning through play in different groups only works up to a certain point. DD mostly entertained herself by writing and drawing in reception, but every single book in the classroom was a picture book when she was reading Enid Blyton at home, so she could read them in 5 min flat. And she found early phonics a torture. But at least it only went on for ten minutes at a time. Year one was when it got much more problematic.

Has! 'Talented' not 'reduced' in first sentence! (Interesting concept though)

FFS 'ha' sodding phone.....

I didn't mention it in advance. The teacher's came to me when they realised that DD was teaching maths to her classmates and actually helping the classmates progress faster than expected.

The classroom will have a home corner, a creative corner, a sit down activity, an outdoor area with water play/sand play, a place where they can 'hide', dress up area, numbers, scales, building blocks, and many, many other toys, and a computer. I think that 4 year olds should be allowed to play, and choose what they play, and even if they can read 'gone with the wind' at home it doesn't stop them from being children. Even G&T children can enjoy playing with friends.

Completely agree with rocket :)

What makes you feel he's G & T? A 4 1/2 year old learning to read and do basic Maths is far from unusual
And my kids could do computer searches from barely three...
He may well turn out to be very bright; but I'd imagine a large percentage of any class he's placed in will be at pretty much the same stage.

It may be that their areas fir development aren't reading and writing if they're already doing well, but imaginative play, experimenting with art and craft and textures, learning to play better with others...

I think its pretty common for most precious first born mummies to think that there child is gifted. The brutal truth is that most children experience a massive spurt of learning during the early years. However different chilren learn different things. Some children will focus on doing hand stands or swimming and have no interest in reading.

Reception develops the areas children need. Some children have to work on their social skills, others physical development and few children learn phonics from scratch. In many ways the reception classroom is ideal for gifted children as there is a lot of child initated learning. Children can learn at their own pace without having to wait for the rest of the class to catch up.

Children who are bored in reception tend to be boring children rather than gifted chidlren. Poor behaviour tends to go with learning difficulties rather than being exceptionally intelligent.

And if your child doesn't really have 'friends' amongst their age peers because they find them a bit dull and uninteresting, rocketjam? How do they get along then?

Again, imagine if an 8 year old was put in a reception class. Would you expect them to be happy to play with the 4 year olds on an equal footing?

It's clear you haven't had any experience of a gifted child in a reception setting, or you've been very lucky in having a reception with several exceptional children in at once and/or an excellent school.

As I said before, DD wanted to learn things at school - she's read books about school, and expected to do formal learning: she wanted to know about DNA and volcanos. She wasn't that interested in building blocks, toys and sand by the time she was four, and didn't need to be taught phonics, number bonds or to count on. That didn't leave much of reception to interest her. There is only so often you can do some painting to fill the time before it gets a bit tedious.

As I keep saying, all children are different. No-one would dream of telling a child who was way below average they had to learn with the other children and just keep up, but it's not at all unusual for gifted children to be expected to cope with 'learning' that is equally inappropriate.

Sorry OP your child does not sound any different to the kids in DDs nursery class who are all starting school soon too.

They can all comfortably read, have good maths skills and have a basic grasp of time and telling the time from a clock. They can count with coins when paying in a shop etc etc All things covered by the nursery teachers.

I would be more concerned with the behaviour, there are no obvious gifts from your list above.

I'd say he is advanced, but not necessarily exceptionally so. Learning to tell the time at that age is pretty good, if he understands what it means. They'll probably be a few others in the class at his kind of level, so he shouldn't stick out too much.

ReallyTired said "Children who are bored in reception tend to be boring children"

Absolute nonsense. Force anyone to learn from scratch something which they are already able to do, and make them go at a slow pace doing it every day, and tell me they won't get bored.

Make Eric Clapton sit down for an hour a day in beginners guitar class where he can't say "I know this" and just has to strum along with each fumbled chord of the beginners and go at their pace and he will be bored - and most importantly he won't learn anything. And that's kind of what school is for, really.

Sorry to burst your bubble but DS2 is G&T in Maths and Literacy - and at end of year two was tested to be level 4b in maths, that's the level that children are expected to reach at the end of year 5. He had a ball in Reception, as his teacher adapted the learning to include him and showed him how to do spreadsheets on the computer. He made spreadsheets of other children's birthdays, where they went on holidays, and gave him advanced books to read, more advanced work to do at home - all teachers should - if try are good teachers - be able to support more advanced children.

I am really sorry if your daughter finds other children of her age 'boring'. Maybe she should focus on social skills a bit more?

The Eric Clapton analogy is interesting, but unfortunately very inaccurate and poor. They are four years old. Many four years old start schools being able to read - DS could read, and he could also count backwards in threes, and could tell you what 3X80 was.

Or you could send your daughter to a private school?

Hi all
Thanks for all the responses. I think the upshot of all your advice is that DS may be totally average (I only have his older sister to compare with, she has just got all 3s for her KS1 teacher assessments, and couldn't do what DS can at his age) and so maybe I don't have anything to worry about.

All parents of new reception children are having the 30 minute meeting with the teachers, I didn't request it specially, and I think I will mention his abilities in passing so they are prepared, but won't make a big deal of it.

We are aware of the behaviour issues, and are working on it (as you have suggested, its not easy to replicate a class of 30 needing to line up nicely after playtime at home..) and the new teachers are aware of the need to focus on this too.

Other mums at school have reassured me that he will be challenged int hat class and so hopefully won't be bored.

I'm intrigued, and pleased, to know that so many nursery children can do so much - maybe all the dire talk of children leaving primary school unable to read is urban myth..

"Absolute nonsense. Force anyone to learn from scratch something which they are already able to do, and make them go at a slow pace doing it every day, and tell me they won't get bored."

A reception class room is mostly child initated play. There is not that much formal teach led learning. There maybe parts of the day which are boring, but 80% of time a gifted child can get on and work at their own pace. (Infact any child can work at their own pace.)

My daughter's first reception teacher told me that children's art tells her more about a child's intelligence than whether the can read or do numeracy. A child's art work show what is going on in their head and how they percieve the world. A gifted child can quickly learn phonics or numeracy skills. Its much harder to teach a child imagination or lateral thinking.

There are loads of resources in my daughter's reception classroom as well as the sand and the building blocks or water. For example my daughter has enjoyed watching chicks grow, catapillers turn in butterflies, grown vegetables as well as painting and craft activites. In lots of countries older children have similar environment. Sucessful home education by unschooling follows a similar approach.

I suspect that many children who find reception "boring" either lack imagination or have lost moviation to learn from being excessively hot housed.

Your analogy to Eric Clapton is pretty stupid. Most top guitarist become good through playing with their instrument. A good guitarist may well have lessons, but a lot of the great guitarists were self taught. Just like a gifted reception child

I seriously don't believe that many nursery children can read and tell the time.

Op your son does sound above average for starting school BUT they put massive emphasis on playing nicely, listening, taking turns, putting hand up etc etc so I would focus on those things probably.

I guess DDs class is full of bright kids then!

Little pinkest, not just bright, way way above the norm to be telling the time competently and reading fluently in nursery.

The children at our local nursery don't generally know how to read or tell the time. There might be one or two but certainly not all of them.

Your ds won't be the only one at school who needs extra help with learning how to sit still and do what the teacher expects him to do. If this were any other board on MN, people would be telling you this.

It is very difficult to replicate a school/nursery environment at home when it comes to things like lining up, getting on with other children etc. I've spent many years trying to work on those areas (2 boys with ASD) and it's not at all easy.

In my experience, reception was great - the range of abilities is so dramatic at that stage (if nothing else because of the difference between a just-turned-4 year old and a 5-going-on-6 year old) that the teachers are used to dealing with it.

Well said Coppertop