Entrance Exam tuition?

[gingerg]

Just been told that 9 yr old DD is very G&T and should be entered for selective school nearby. Advised, though, that she should have a tutor before sitting entrance exam just to help her prepare. Anyone know how I can find a good tutor? Especially grateful if anyone knows where I can find a good tutor in Orpington?!

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Hi SueW - thanks for that link. Do you think they would send them out to someone not in the area though, or would I have to fib a bit

I would with reluctance advise you that an experienced tutor would be a good idea for the following reasons:

• getting your dd used to exam technique (see Bink's post); half the battle is understanding the "politics" of the exam, however bright you are
• extending her learning up to and perhaps beyond the parameters of the exam; on the day it will be so much easier, and a bright girl will most likely enjoy rising to the challenge
• banal but true; often a child will settle down to learn with a tutor better than with parents ! In any event I have 3 other children including a wall drawing toddler (see the "My child is and can thread elsewhere on G&T)so I felt I'd have struggled to devote the necessary time to dd's extra work. Yes you can buy papers in Smiths etc and go through them together, but a good tutor will provide more professional assistance.

I speak with experience of a younger child; in September my dd will be going into y3 of an academic girls' school where the competition is fierce. I wasn't going to tutor her but a friend whose son had the previous year got into a similarly high powered boys' school advised me otherwise.
I used a retired teacher who came recommended by word of mouth.
Dd's exam was in January; the tutoring (40m per week) started in Late September. Most weeks dd had to do a little homework too. She lapped it up and didn't feel overwhelmed at all. She's about to finish at a non selective prep school where even now they haven't covered all the ground dd needed in order to sit her exam.

I think for an older child you'd need to start much earlier though. Ds1 (12) is changing school too; again he's going somewhere more academic, but his school is geared up for Common Entrance at 13+ so I feel that's been enough. Had I wanted to move him at 11+ though (a few of his friends did this) I think he'd have had a tutor too, probably for about a year or more. We're in London so it gets very "buzzy" around school entrance exam time !

NormaSnorks have you looked at the Bond series ? They are very good.

Hi gingerg. I'm very interested in this thread as I've just started tutoring. I seem to be called on most to help with exam technique - as several people have commented, the child is bright enough to get through, but unfamiliar with the type of exam, or suffers nerves for a variety of reasons. So I tend to look at approaches to exams which focus on skills and understanding, thinking etc., rather than knowledge (which these children have no problem with). I can't do 11+ because I don't tutor until after 7pm, but I am tutoring a girl who is going into Y6 in Sept by doing an intensive course during the school hols (with clever childcare arrangements). It will be interesting to see how it works out!

wandering star - thanks, I haven't seen the Bond series - can you give me any more information or links please?

Is it the national 11+ your dd is sitting gingerg?
If it is I'd advise using the practice sets you can buy from amazon, the lets series
My ds was also told to apply for selective gramamr due to being very G+TWE moved 300 miles to a grammar area. HE sat the 11+ with no coaching just two weeks after we arrived, we just used the practice papers.
Also his primary did practices too in YR6
Are there other children in your dd's school who would also apply, it would be in the primaries bets interests to offer in class asssitance/mock ups too.
I'd advise against heavy coaching as children can flounder once they get there, I know of several kids who were coached the 11_+ here who are struggling and are likely to be asked to leave at the end of the school year
If your dd is G+T she should sail through.

Oh, and by the way, I wasn't claiming either of my boys are G&T - just had some info about tutors.

I do think it's nonsense to say that if a child needs to be tutored to pass a school exam, they will necessarily struggle at that school. I think we are talking different definitions of tutoring here. As far as I can see, most parents are just trying to improve their children's chances and getting them used to exam technique. Many of them would probably succeed without the tutoring.

Last year, I was told, some parents at our local primary school organised a 'mock' exam so the children had some idea of the conditions of the test. This is London.

Agree with singersgirl about different definitions of tutoring. But it also depends on the type of exam your child will be taking -- as I said earlier, the state school exams tend to be more standardised, often using multiple-choice which is more likely to give all comers a fair chance. Whereas the independent school 11+ exams are much more traditional and open-ended, requiring long essay-type answers. Dd1 had never done any extended writing at primary school at all, and it took her a little while to get the hang of what 'good writing' was all about. For the maths the differential is not so noticeable, but there will still be things that most children in an ordinary primary school will not have covered: eg. dd1's state grammar school entrance paper asked the children to work out what 6 cubed was, and to multiply and divide fractions, all things she had never done at school. Sure, I could have taught her at home, but it's a large commitment to fit in around the needs of the other children, and having a tutor avoids the arguments that would inevitably be caused by making a bolshy 9/10 yo do extra work at home.

I'm less convinced of the need for tutoring at 7+ although I know there's a lot of it about. Dd1 sat the 7+ entrance exams for all the local hothouse private schools and was offered places at all of them, despite not having any tutoring. Ds is the same age now, and I don't think would get into the boys' equivalents. He possibly could have been tutored up to that level, but I wouldn't want to push him into a school like that unless he had the appropriate level of ability. There's a world of difference between that kind of pushy tutoring and simply giving an able child in a state school the chance to compete on a level playing-field with equally bright children who've been prepared for exams and taught a more academic curriculum in a much more focussed way.

NormaSnorks I'll try to do a link for you here \link{http://www.assessmentpapers.co.uk/

Totally agree SingersGirl, teaching children abotu test techniques and familiarising them with style and flow of the exams is essential tbh
There is marked difference between tutoring and coaching
At my ds's primary there were some seriosu cases of coaching - it is only the non verbal reasoning test they do here, so it is possible to coach for it
Some of these kids are now flailing seriously...

Not quite right, sorry, but you can now go to the Bond site...Ds3 accidentally phoned the police while I was trying to link

A particular child's need for extra help also depends on how geared up the primary schools are to the requirements of the selective secondary schools. Round here the idea of parents organising a mock exam is unthinkable because people are so hostile to the idea of selection in principle, even within the state system. Quite a lot of other parents have cut us dead since dd1 got into the grammar school, and the headteacher of dd1's school came into Y6 to congratulate all the other children who'd got into their first choice (comprehensive) school, but pointedly didn't congratulate her. So the culture was very much against her.

SueW, he was only 6 when he did the exam so had no experience of written tests, SATS-wise or other, and it didn't dawn on me to tell him "intelligent guessing" was allowed. (Whether it's fair to assess them like that at that age is a separate issue - but suffice to say he actually hugely enjoyed the exam (much as he's just enjoyed his KS1 SATS) - it was just the alienness of it all for him then.)

The tutoring we're planning for him is small group tutoring of children all going for v academic schools, not one-on-one - as one of the things I'd like is for him to meet other boys who like wittering about irrational numbers. He's too much out on his own limb as it is.

And, of course, if he doesn't enjoy the extended curriculum of the tutoring we'll take that as a message he shouldn't do the exam/go to that sort of school.

Definitely get a tutor. All the others will, and that is enough reason in itself. Poor DS had a tutor and a Saturday class, plus extensive revision of spelling at home (but only for one term). He still failed to see 3 questions on the back page of one of the tests. It's more about exam technique than content.

Irrational numbers, bink? Blimey. I'm guessing that even the v. academic 7+ entrance exams don't go quite that far, so maybe he never really got the chance to show what he could do.

But yes, exam technique does need to be learnt. Ds has just taken his KS1 SATs and done less than stellarly (fine for his age, but clearly not outstanding). He came home after the tests telling me that he'd left out the questions he thought were too hard, to which I answered, in my best horrified-former-straight-A-student, pushy-mother voice, "But if you leave it blank, you won't get any marks at all for that question!" Ds just fixed me with one of his beatific smiles, shook his head and said, "I don't really mind."

It is as much about practice in exam technique and familiarity with the format as being bright. The Bond's Assessment Papers available in WHSmith and Ottakers are a good place to start to see what is covered and how. The papers are from age 7 and they go up to about 11+ now I think. Ypu can download samples on their Website

Piffle, no, it's the entrance exam for the school mentioned by Ladymuck. DD(2) has been at her current school since Reception but, until her current supply teacher took her, no-one had mentioned that she might be G&T. She's currently in Y4 and has been sailing through Y5 (and some Y6) coursework since he took over. DD1 is at the local non-selective and quite happy there; this isn't about having a G&T child, it's about giving her the best chance to do well. But, having said that, I do believe that a G&T child should be able to do well in any school that is prepared to invest time and effort in them. For that reason, will only put DD2 forward for above school as it is the only one within reasonable distance of home; I don't want her travelling 2-3 hours a day on top of school and H/W. If she's not successful, she will join DD1 - much to DD1's disgust!!

LadyMuck yes. Both my children go to selective grammar NOT independant.
My son went and is now finishing year nine ( form prize!!!!!)
MY daughter is starting the girls school in September.
Six girls in her class took it two got in ... Neither of those two were tutored but three of the failed four were tutored. I think it was a hard year - numbers were 'unprecendented' and they had to schedule more exam dates.

But I don't think that it is a matter of tutored kids are more likely to fail. If a child isn't up to a certain standard then there isn't much a tutor can do. But I think that a tutor (or an informed parent) can make a lot a difference to a bright kid (especially since the exam is so competitive).

Newstead just does Verbal and Non Verbal reasoning, so for a bright kid this is just exam practice anyway (and something that the prep school kids will have been doing for months).

I think you can get any kid through through those tests if you work hard at it..
There are boys in my sons year at a FAB selective grammar school who scored the same in their SATs this year ( year 9) as my DD did in her year 6( in her teacher assesments) and she aint a genius!