Would you send g+t child to private school?

[chicaguapa]

DD (4.5) has just been assessed by an Ed Psy (at the request of her nursery school) and she's in top 2% having completed some test for 7 year olds (or something like that). However, was then told that there's no provision for G+T in East Lancs until Secondary School. I now feel a tremendous pressure and responsibilty (from everyone) and am quite annoyed for them having made this assessment for what seems like no reason whatsoever!

And now we are under pressure from grandparents (on both sides) who "knew all along how clever she was" and how important it is that we now put her in a good school etc.

Our feeling was that we would see how she gets on in Reception at the school she's going to in Sept, if she's happy, settled etc. It IS supposed to be a good school and the children are streamed so they can be taught according to ability etc. And if there are behaviourial problems from boredom or other adverse effects then we would re-evaluate the situation.

But we're now not sure if it's a good thing if she's being taught to coast and not challenge herself. Both DH and myself breezed through school, providing what was expected through minimal effort and never once being encouraged by the teachers to see what we could produce "if we really tried hard" (nor by our parents we hastened to point out to them!)

So the upshot is, is it worth sending her to a private school? I know they're not all about education, education, education and most of them try to be an all-rounder but is it worth scraping the pennies together?

And does anyone have any experience of trying to get their child in on a scholarship (if they still exist!)?

I wasn't having a dig, I suppose most parents who are asked by their dd nursery to trst their child would do so.

The reason I wouldn't is that I know I am naturally a very pushy mum and have to fight hard to ignore my basic instinct and allow dd to relax and just be 4. I was also pushed as a very young child and can remember having to sit in the house doing flashcards so while my toddler friends were all playing andthen having to watch documentaries and be parardeded like a show pony. I spent many years playig thick just to get my mUm of my back which then lead to a breakdown in our relationship as she could not hide her disapointment in me.

This was suggested for DS1 (before we realised that he had AS and has disparate abilities- age 10 verbally, 3 emotionally). The key Worker at his Montessori knew someone who was offering a scholarship to a local prerp, and wanted to nominate him. I said no.

My reason for doing this was A) I don't know your situation (haven't read all thread) but I couldn't afford for any other children (we have two and would like a third) to follow him into private education, and have seen the effects of this with friends- daughter exceptionall G&T (ended up head girl of her Ladies College at Oxford, and a Barrister) and her sister who was fairly bright but felt stupid and that she was missing out. 2)My ex-fiance and my BOL went to the same Private School, and are neither worldly wise nor tolerant- I know not all schools are like tha, but this was the local one; C) As I said Ex went there; exceptionally bright lad, on a scholarship- became very lazy and used to having anything he wanted easily accessible, just scraped a ":" at Uni and is the laziest person I know; and D) a lot of what is offered at private school is extra; ex felt very marked as poor (they were anything but, but in comparison...) and his parents found themselves under great pressure to fund expensive uniform, ski-ing trips, etc etc- the school even charged per sheet of paper in art class!

Having said all that..... If I could afford to put all my kids through comfortably, then I would- like a shot.

Where I live there are extremely good state schools, and so we decided not to ruin ourselves financially and send my G&T daughter to a fee~paying school. If we lived in the city next door we would not have the choice, and we would be poor!

What's most important I think, is that your G&T child will find a peer group of equally talented students who can support and inpsire each other.

My daughter absolutely stood out at primary school and we had many issues with teasing. While the learning to deal with the teasing helped to build character and there were "Able Pupil" initiatives within the school, there were very few other kids on my daughter's level, and it was exhausting having to work through issues with teachers.

It really is such a personal choice. My husband and I both went to Oxford and so did our best friends. We both went private they went state, and we all swear by the choice our parents made for us. I think you need to look at the personality of your child, go and visit both and follow your gut instinct. Not all state schools are the same and not all private schools are the same. Also if you start private, I think its hard for kids to readjust and go to state school - say if after a while its too expensive (typically fees can increase at a rate greater than inflation!), so theres that to consider too.

Another thing to consider is grammar schools, if there are any near you. A lot of people pay for a good prep school so that their kids have a good chance of getting into the non-fee paying grammar school. (apologies if someone already said about grammar schools, haven't read every post in detail - little one is trying to go off to sleep)

I think it only fair to add that not everybody has the choice to send their children to fee~paying school even with a generous bursary or scholarship. EVERYTHING costs more at a fee~paying school from uniforms and sports equipment to school trips, so even if you have help with fees, your kid can be the one wearing secondhand uniform and not able to participate fully in school life ~ even as a day pupil.

We looked into bursaries for our daughter, but then decided she could partcipate more fully in a state school in which we could afford to send her on school trips abroad and not have to worry financially.

To be perfectly honest with you, at most fee~paying schools money is the only thing that talks (I have worked in one and my father was a senior master at a fee~paying school). The class to teacher ratio may be better than in most state schools, and while they undoubtedly have better facilities across the board and you're less likely to have special~needs children (at the lower end of the scale), you're still likely to have the offspring of a load of jumped~up chavs along with what one might consider to be the more 'traditional' kind of intake for these types of schools.

We have noticed a rather unpleasant mindset shown by some of my daughter's peers who started out perfectly pleasant, and then turned ~ frankly ~ into apalling little snobs when their parents decided to fork out for private education. I think these parents paid for education for all the wrong reasons, and have instilled into their offspring an idea that they are 'better' than their state~educated peers. A local private school visited my daughter's school for a netball match and were overheard referring to our girls as "scum". Our girls were furious and thrashed them hollow and sent them and their unhappy parents home ~ the parents no doubt wondering precisely what they had been spending their money on!

Having been exposed to some of these attitudes, I have decided that we will make a virtue out of necessity in knowing that our daughter will grow up with a decent set of values... without her education suffering. Seeing my daughter's KS3 SATs results, and the fact that she will take around 13 GCSEs which are already predicted to include a number of A*s, I can't see what more value paying for her education would have added.

Grammar schools are ~ alas ~ in very short supply, so that is hardly a viable choice in a lot of places. If there was a grammar school in our city, you can bet my daughter would be there, and maybe so would many fo her bright friends. I don't happen to think the comprehensive system is perfect, and I think grammar schools are more completely tailored to the learning styles of bright kids.....but all things considered, our school does pretty well by its G&T kids.

A slightly different take.... I am quite ancient and grew up when G&T testing didn't exist (hell, even my brothers dyslexia didn't exist in those days). I went to fab local state primary and was top in class but when I got to (very highly rated) grammer I totally switched off, and failed everything. I was bored to tears and it was only once I switched to local college I realised I was actually quite clever. For these reasons I disagree with view that stars will shine anywhere.

I think it doesn't matter if your child is at private, grammer, or whatever, so long as they are happy and progressing well. If not, then move them, end of story. Given the entry differences you can always try the state option first from 5 till 7 then switch if you want to private (and can do same suck it and see test at age 11 to 13). The only thing that I thnk would be difficult to do is have them private first and then switch to state when they are 11 as it would mortify them I am sure.

FWIW I think whether a child at state turns into a hooligan, or a child at private turns into a snob depends more on the parents than the school. Good friends of mine have their kids in Hackney sink school where loads of kids speak first language other than English. Both parents are however on PTA, are incredibly closely involved in their kids education and as a consequence of that and the teachers' efforts, their children are two of the best behaved, intellectual children I've ever met. They're better kids for their experience than mine will be given the soft suburbs we live in..

Briefly
Not at primary school - money far better spent on out of school activities/drama/riding/sport/music - develop with their peers
But perhaps at secondary, depending on how good or not the state schools were

whiffy beat me to it but completely agree its the parents not the school that give the kids attitude.

One word of warning about state to private at 11. I did this and was fine, but my sister didn't. Mum realised my sisters exercise books were below my standard (she'd kept my books, despite 7 year age gap)although she was told my sister was in the top few of her class (at age 7). Mum went to speak to local prep school with sisters books and was told she was nearly 2 years behind the equivalent class at the prep school. Mum worked with her over the holidays and she started the prep school that september.

Not saying all state primaries are the same, but if considering this option try and build a relationship with a private school and get their advice - ask to see the work, if you're cynical they will try and sell their school to you.

I have to agree with the last post. I had a similar experience. I went to a state primary school and came top of my class (out of a class average of 34 pupils) for 3 years running and received glowing school reports. I was described by the teachers as 'bright and gifted' and I'm especially strong in Maths. My mum was worried though. I hardly did any work, and despite having a high 'IQ', my mum had her doubts over the general standard of my education. My brother was at prep-school - I come from a conservative family whereby boys must go to prep and public schools, and girls go wherever - so she took my books and my school reports to the prep-school for comment. What she heard really upset her. The work (this was before the National Curriculum was introduced) I was being 'taught' at 9/10 years at the state primary school was the same work being taught to 7/8 year olds at the prep-school. My parents stretched their finances to send me to the prep school for 3 years but unfortunately could not afford the public school fees despite my obtaining a part scholarship. My parents were already paying £16,000 per year for my brother's public school fees and simply couldn't stretch their finances to cover the few extra £1000 per year required to cover my attendance at public school. I went back into the state school system, whereby I was allowed to take 2 GCSEs early at 13/14 years (in year 9) and received an A grade in both subjects. However, by year 11, I had 'gone off the rails' with the rest of my classmates, although I somehow managed to get a decent set of GCSEs, the best in the year. Trust me, it is difficult for even the brightest/gifted/talented child to do well in a 'failing' comprehensive. The comprehensive I attended was closed temporarily before reopening - it was that bad. I eventually managed to get into a top university - 2 years later than most entrants - and was awarded a 1st class honours. However, my experience has left me completely disillusioned with the whole state education system. For this reason, I would do anything to ensure my children go to prep school at 7 years old and then onto public school, even if it means mortgaging our currently mortgage-free house. Needless to say, my relationship with my brother is non-existent. He sees me as a 'pleb' - a term, I'm informed, that is used by public school attendees to describe someone who attended a state comprehensive school, and I resent him for having the excellent educational opportunities of which I was robbed.

I have to agree that it is the school that matters. There are several private schools round here and i have been to open Days etc. The best school academically is also the school for the 'social climbers' who would make me feel inferior. The other schools have wonderful parents across a broad spectrum, none of whom have made me feel anything other than a person. My kids love it there, and as it is a small school in the country there is a good mix of people.

Interestingly the comment also works the other way around - with our neighbours those of us who send kids to private school are really snubbed by those that use the local state primary (which has a reputation for bullying, not the best for my extremely shy dd), they do not care about the reasons, they just denigrate you and that is that. One has to tell everyone about the 5 houses she has, the 3 overseas holidays a year and not to mention the porsche.... We have very little and the kids have not been abroad yet, but they are happy and settled in a good, family based school with a wonderful caring ethos (that also gets the best Ofsted reports) and to me that is the most important thing.

Not read all of the thread as I am sure it is the same old same old!

All mine are at private school,

ds1 started it by getting a choral scholarship and it continued from there. 3 out of four will go through with choral scholarships and specialist musician places.

It is not something they would get at a regular state school

Not at primary level tbh, but I did move a long way to get ds into a top grammar school as we could not afford private schooling for him
it was a very good move

I look at all the politicians and judges and surgeons and everyone in a well paid job in a position of power and, though it pains me to say it, a significant majority of them have been privately educated.

The state school system isn't great in this country. It definitely fails many children, especially the really bright ones.

OK they get some kind of social experience but look just a bit deeper, think a bit harder, perhaps read some of the stuff written by, for example, home educators and the social education myth really doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I simply haven't the funds to educate my four privately but, even though I was brought up a socialist and still hold many of those values close to my heart, I would still send them to private school (or probably Steiner school) if I could afford it. I also keep open the possibility that one day I may home educate, if things go badly wrong enough to raise my passions. At the moments they're blessed with a good school but my kids are in state ed' by the skin of their teeth.

My son is complaining that his sums are way too easy - and they are. He does much harder sums than that at home for fun - and I don't push him at all. This has all come from him. I've had to say to him, 'If you want harder sums you must ask the teacher'. Ridiculous situation. He's bored out of his mind waiting for something to challenge him.

"I look at all the politicians and judges and surgeons and everyone in a well paid job in a position of power and, though it pains me to say it, a significant majority of them have been privately educated."
Absolutely. I could have had so much materially if we hadn't educated our 5 privately but I think it's worth every penny and it's the education I had and the reason I can afford 5 sets of fees etc.

Most scholarships are at 11+. Try the Sutton Trust who do scholarships to prep schools but I think not many. What about evening and weekend jobs too to make up the fee levels?

I don't know if my kids would be deemed G&T in the state system because I have avoided the state system for them since they were 7. All I can say is that they are near the top of their classes in their academic private schools, and are happy and do not feel like freaks. That is I require from any school- that they not be made to feel like freaks.

What put me off sticking with state school was partly the attitude of my son's first teacher, who told me there was obviously something wrong with him because all he wanted to do at break time was sit indoors with a book, (not go outside to play football with the other boys) and partly the lack of exercise in our local state schools at the time (ie no morning break at all after first term year 3 (age 7-8), which would never have suited my active son, and would have caused problems with both daughters.)

I don't think that it ultimately matters, particularly in primary school, as long as your child is happy, has friends, is suitably challenged and is with a sympathetic teacher.

I would recommend playing it by ear- unfortunately with a sensitive intelligent child, this might involve changing schools several times, but I don't think this is as much of a problem for children as many people think it is.

Good luck.

It is important that like any other service you use, you look at the school as to what is best for the individual child and your family. Try not to be influenced too much by others; what is right for their child is not necessarily right for yours. Remember there is good, bad and mediocre in both the state and the independent system. For gifted and talented pupils (G&T) the state system is asked to follow government guidelines and operate a G&T programme throughout the school. There should be a G&T register, written policy and a G&T Lead Teacher in the state schools; the private schools do not have to follow these guidelines. Therefore they do not necessarily understand high ability or feel the need to have a programme. Nevertheless some private schools do an exceptional job just as do some state schools. You MUST check out each individual school within each system and ask yourself does the school have the right ethos, morals and values for your child & family and what will my child learn whilst in this environment. Child of high intellect generally will be ok academically in the right learning environment and with the right people around them but socially and emotionally they may not be. Often G&T pupils have huge struggles socially & emotionally and require a lot of support and guidance to keep them balanced and give them a holistic learning environment. Contact me on the NAGC Helpline if you need any further help or guidance 0845 450 0221 my colleagues or I will be pleased ot help.

There should be a G&T register, written policy and a G&T Lead Teacher in the state schools.

Don't make me laugh.
It feels that the G&T job is given out to whoever drew the short straw. The responsibility is passed around from teacher to teacher like a hot potato. To continue the simile, it often gets dropped and no-one bothers to pick it up.

P.S. Sorry if this sounded rude, Ed: one should be welcoming to newbies. I was dissing the schools, not you.
It's good to have an expert on board.

Now that this thread has resurrected itself, I can add some current points.

DD is doing really really well at the local state primary school. I had 3 to choose from and went with my gut instinct. We were called in for a meeting with the R teacher (who's also the SENCO) and the G&Tco (who happens to the the Head). The Head admitted that DD is the 1st G&T they've had but it means they are doing everything by the book. DD has got an IEP and they seem to be tackling it responsibly and sensitively. I think it definitely helps that her teacher is the SENCO.

DD is starting to notice what she can do compared to others but just thinks it's because she's already 5. And she complains every day that it's boring which I discovered means that she's having to work hard.

So far so good.

The national register for Primary schools coime in to effect in 2007 and is already working in Secondary schools. State school must recognise the top 10% in their school and place them on a school register and track them throughout their time within the school. They must now also inform the national register at the DfES so they can be tracked nationally. Children 11 yrs + plus should be recommended for entrance to NAGTY by their school and children & their families from early years upwards can be members of NAGC. Call me on 0845 450 0221.