like cod

[cod]

arf at this section

parp parp parp
where the " my kid is thick " section

I think the problem I have with G&T as a govt. policy is the very branding

so we take a percentage of our kids at an early age and refer to them as gifted and talented .. what does that make the rest of our kids .. not gifted / untalented?

.. I think we deserve an education (and health) system with an individualised approach so every child is taught and stretched to their abilities .. but we don't use crap, divisive, designed to piss people off terminology to refer to a certain percentage

the higher education system used to be for those who were more academically 'gifted' .. but that's no longer true is

(some of the stupidest people I've ever met have been academically bright btw)

Isn't G&T the same or similar as streaming? Isn't it meant to be the top 5% or something. Isn't that just another form of streaming. I'm not a big fan of streaming having languished for 3 years in the bottom stream. Even though I was moved up to this day I doubt my abilities at work and am constantly waiting for them to 'find me out'. It gets stressful I can tell you.

The only thing that gives me some relief is when I reason with myself that every other bugger is playing a good game of talking a good job.

It doesn't bother me though that Mums want to chat about their children who have found themselves with this label. Have some school dropped the G&T thing as I'm sure DS's school don't have it.

Anyway teachers aren't always the best at deciding who is going to get in. Myself and my friend were some afterthoughts, only allowed to apply after our chemistry teacher had expresssed his disapproval that we might be upsetting the good name of the school. We got in, 2 "dead certs" didn't. It's always a lottery. I have no idea whether we would have been identified by a g and t scheme, probably not, I can see it leading to quotas of you can only apply to x if you are g and t etc. As dino said, it's divisive- MORE divisive than grammer schools which labour are meant to be so against.

I do think gentle encouragement for everyone will lead them to the right place for them. My friend at school had real hassle applying for nursing because she was supposedly "too bright". It was also she ever wanted to do. Good for her she stood her ground and got her place. She could easily have applied for Oxbridge but had no wish too.

yes agree twiglett.

Don't want to get too much into this, but it made me wonder what they did in the years before "g and t". I think, much like jimjams pt, they just stretched them that bit harder, within the normal setting. All those bygone genuises - Brunel,Hardy,Darwin,Wallace - I think they had pretty normal educations with added bits. Maybe that is what is still happening, but the label is different, like so many things now.

oh now this is really interesting.

I've just looked up the G and T scheme and discovered it was introduced to raise standards in inner cities - hence the sort of scheme I described earlier- and have to say I am all for that.

But I also realised that ds1's school (for children with severe learning difficulties and profound and multiple learning difficulties) actually benefits from money set aside for this as they his school is part of the excellence cluster or something. So they have had access to specialist music teaching and visits to specialist exhibitions etc- it's part of the same scheme that is used to provide extra support for the able pupils in inner city schools, although some of the support (like the music stuff) appears to be more widely spread in the normal schools as well. Raising standards expectations across the whole area has to be a good idea (apparently my city is the third most deprived in the UK after London and Birmingham, so some sort of intervention is desperately needed in some schools).

jimjams i keep thinking you're near Exeter have I got this wrong

\link{http://www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/sie/si/eips/casestudies/pwply\here zippi}

And having read that- I do think that is a good use of G and T extra cash (and I love the fact that ds1 benefits :o)

very interesting and excellent that your ds1's school got some funding

so there are benefits from the concept if not the label

I would say definitely, Zippi. The label is crap and the 'qualifying' percentage varies so widely between schools as to make it utterly meaningless.

niceglasses-surely those geniuses were educated at home with governesses?

Hi catinthehat, I really haven't got time for guessing games - I just wish posters of your ilk would have the courage of your convictions. I doubt someone would 'msn' you about this thread if you were a new poster.

Everyone on this thread has said whatever they had to say, be it positive or negative, under their usual posting name - even if some posts are deemed to be not very pleasant at least they are honest.

btw is 'catintheshat' a friend of yours?

FOOTBALL ANYONE?

Filly, I thought all 'cept maybe Darwin had fairly ordinary educations - I know for sure Wallace did. You could well be right tho.

Sure is an interesting thread - esp the origins of the scheme.

At the last school concert (easter) some of the classes had been working with the specialist music provider as part of the scheme and they gave some little shows. They were absolutely brilliant (madness, absolute madness, - think 8 severely learning disabled kids giving a very enthusiastic performance and you are half way there). I remember in one class there was only one boy who could speak and he was given the microphone (my god). I think that particular pot of money funded them performing in town with a mainstream secondary school that was part of the excellence cluster as well. The music person didn't work with ds1's class, but they were funded to go to an amazing light and climbing exhibition instead.

Come on you have to agree that is a good use of g and t resources :)

Abso bloody lutely JimJams.

Has something got lost in translation then somewhere??

oh I don't know, but I guess because of the social problems in the city I live in the resources were geared and thought about, rather than frittered with no-one knowing what they were doing. I know the excellence cluster grew out of the old educatioon action zone, which was a previous thing. I can ask if I go to my next book club, because one of the people who runs it (she wrote that report I linked to) is a member. It grew out of an educational action zone. Mind you Plymouth still has grammer schools so I don't know how it all ties in there. I will ask because I am interested in the politics of it. I do really agree with putting the extra resources towards the most disadvantaged - and I know that when I have talked (very briefly) about it before with the person who runs it - she was very clear that the G and T stuff was being targetted at those with the greatest social need in the city.

Rather like the 'Specialist Schools' cobblers then. All school have to cover the NC, it doesn't make a tinkers cuss where your dd/ds does her/his GCSE in PE, in a Language Collage or a Sports collage it will all be much of a muchness.

Doesn't mean that I will turn away the projector that gettign science collage status has got me!

The label is pointless but the cold, hard, cash is rather useful!

ye and that was what I was kind of skirting around earlier. Does G and T convert into cold hard cash always (or just in excellence zones?). If always I don't think it should (because I think needs can be met without needing cold hard cash), but if its targetted so that G and T money can be spent where its socially needed then that's fine by me.

The excellence stuff has really allowed ds' school to do some good things (and they used their Xmas cards last year ho ho). I do like the idea that even the least able and most vulnerable are benefitting from the cash though.

TBH JJ I simply don't know. We don't have much by a way of a g and t in our school, and I have never seen any money as a result of it......but then I am but a simple teacher!

And if it does exsist I don't know how 'earmarked' it is.

I'm just happy that at long last I will have a ceiling mounted projector! I've got it because we are now a science college,,,,so what! But I'm glad I have the kit!

I would have thought that if schools got the hard cash then the G&T scheme would be up and running in all schools. Not that I am cynical or anything...

Mybe not if a decision is taken to target it though.

Yoyo did you email me? I haven't receievd anything.

Yeah, nice one JJ.

I meant the other JJ by the way, not you Jimjams (oh confusing myself now).

JJ has altered the headings, so this is showing as Education now.

Jimjams - no, but will do tomorrow morning. Haven't been able to access my email this afternoon (DH was on the case until he went to the theatre so not sorted).