Gifted &Talented Secondary School Trips

[paranoidparent]

My D/S, 14 years old, has just finished year 9 at a state Secondary School, with a good reputation, in the South East.
He's an undemonstrative child, never causes trouble.

He achieved a grade 7A in Science in December 2011, and was placed 2nd in the whole year group of approx 210 children.
We have only just been informed of his year placement in July 2012 (having asked at the parents evening in January and nobody got back to us)

He achieved a grade 7A in Science in June 2012 and was placed 3rd in the whole year group of approx 210 children.
(Level 8B in Maths, but thats another story)

When the school came to invite around 34 pupils to their "Gifted and Talented" trip to Tirabad in the summer (before the June KS3 results) my son wasn't invited?

It's as if he doesn't exist, or somehow he isn't quite good enough. I would have queried their decision at the time, but I didn't know his placement in the year.
Their whole selection process is a big secret.

Then (and this is another story again) Their KS4 Science co-ordinator tried to discourage him from taking the triple science pathway at GCSE, (when he really wants to take science subjects at A Level), saying his English might not be good enough to tackle the more wordy questions in the new Science GCSE (He achieved a Level 7C in reading (comprehension), 6B in writing, (his handwriting is poor and he has permission to work on a word processor, as he can type at a much faster rate than he can write neatly)

It seems no matter how well he performs, instead of encouraging him they point out his shortcomings.

I get the impression that schools can pick and choose their criteria for G&T to suit themselves, are there any guidelines?

I thought I read somewhere it's usually the top two pupils in each of several academic subjects and the top two pupils at selected sports and arts subjects?

G&T is a term used to describe (usually) the top 5-10% of the cohort in any given subject, so the exact numbers on the register will depend on how many children are in the year group.

I have no idea what Tirabad is, but was this definitely a G&T Science trip?

Because whilst your son may well be on the G&T register for Science, this trip may have been for those children who are G&T at PE, or History, or whatever.

I can't understand why they have tried to discourage him from taking triple science with those scores though, seems mad.

Many thanks for your reply,
I do not believe he is on the G&T register, I've never been told and have only recently found out about the existence of such registers.

No, Tirabad is in the middle of Wales, it's an Outdoor Educational Centre, they do caving, canoeing, archery etc. As far as I know they took kids across the spectrum of achievement, just not mine.

Wonder why their selection process is such a big secret?

We've already had words with the Headmaster & Head of Science about the triple science debacle. It was one of the Science teachers, (The KS4 Science coordinator), probably given the task of reducing the numbers of applicants for triple science, who cast the seeds of doubt in his mind by criticizing his English skills, which to my mind, although not fabulous, weren't that bad!

I suggested To the Head et.al. that they were were undermining his confidence, and where was the encouragement or praise? Thats when I asked where he was placed in the year for Science, results of which I received from the Head of Science by email today.

I suspected the Head of Science didn't know that the KS4 Science coordinator had approached my son, (he wasn't the only one approached, but probably the only one with such a good Science score). Their excuse was to identify any areas where the pupils might need help. Why? The GCSE's are 2 years away, I'm sure his English will improve. It's any excuse to find a shortcoming and make him feel unsure of himself, hoping he'll opt out of triple science because they're oversubscribed. How did he manage to answer the Science papers he's already excelled in if he's semi-literate?

Even if I went back to the Headmaster about the G&T trip, I suspect they would fob me off with some complicated story about their selection process,as they tried to fob me off about why they tried to discourage him from doing triple science.

It reeks of favouritism! Someone else's child went to Tirabad in place of him.

I hate G&T trips with a passion - see my many rants on the subject! - I completely agree with you that favouritism is involved, plus gobby, pushy parents. The whole idea behind them creates elitism and resentment from the other children. Sorry that doesn't help you though.

You see, I just don't think that it sounds like a G&T trip. At our school, G&T trips are geared towards the subjects that the children are G&T at, and I can't imagine what canoeing, caving and archery have got to do with any national curriculum subject (unless maybe PE).

The only general trips at our school, of the nature you describe, are offered to (1) children achieving over a certain number of Achievment Points, (2) children on the Young Leaders programme, and (3) children who are struggling socially and need a boost/support in making friends (although the parents aren't told that, it's presented as a reward for being marvellous).

I think that you should ask about it, you can't be the only parent wondering.

Sorry, I re-read your post and realised that, although your first post referred to it as a G&T trip your second post stated that they chose children from across the spectrum of achievement. I would still ask about it though - "I have heard about this marvellous trip to Tirabad and wondered how you choose the children to go on it, it sounds like something that my DS would like to do". Why not? I generally take the approach that it is not worth seething over something that you don't have the full facts about, be proactive instead.

The trip to Tirabad for this schools year 9's is most definitely a Gifted and Talented trip. They do it every year, specifically for year 9, and post the slideshows on the schools website, (under the Gifted and Talented tab) hailed as "Welcome to Gifted and Talented" and underneath that heading "Tirabad Trips" You need a login to look at the slides.
I could post the link but it would rather give the game away as to the identity of the school, and I'm not sure thats etiquette on this site?
Thats all the School tells us about Tirabad, the rest of the process is a secret.
As for Tirabad itself, it looks Ok, but I've really no idea what it's like, apart from the blurb on their website, more to the point neither does my son

Why are you bothered?
I won't go into why I think it is a total waste of time and money.

PS some schools are missusing it

I agree, it is a waste of their money, and elitism. The kids aren't really geniuses in the true sense, it's just the top performers in each designated subject, (has to be around 12 or 15 subjects in all) it's not meant for good all rounders.
All schools have this program, it's supposed to be the top 5%. It's just that he was so happy that he'd done well, he worked for it, and deflated when there was no acknowledgment.
He's not bothered about the Tirabad trip as such, although it would have been nice to have been asked. For me it's the fact that I know he fell into the category that should have been invited. So another child went, for the science category, instead of him, How?

As I said if I questioned it I would probably be fobbed of with some story about their complicated selection process. They're very good at fudging the issue, I've already had the experience.
Teacher recommendations and classwork are only supposed to be for very young children, who may not show their abilities in a formal test. Much older children are judged by solid results in formal tests (as we all are, GCSE, A Levels, University Degrees etc.)

Don't get down hearted. Schools will 'fudge'!
I think you could just bide your time and see him leap-frog all of his peers.
PS is he there for 6th form?

I think my niece might go to that school. She is bright but not overly and went on the gifted and talented Tirabad trip (that was 3 years ago, though). I can't think why they are passing over your son if he is second in the year! I'd definitely query it. If it is the school I am thinking of, my DSis queried another ability placing and my niece got into the group, so pointing out a possible oversight may work.

sorry adeucalione, I just re-read your post and didn't make it clear.
I didn't mean they selected pupils across the spectrum of achievement.
I meant across the spectrum of subjects. In other words the top 2 or 3 achievers in Maths, Science, History, RE, Geography, English etc. They include Art, Music and Sport as well for the talented side.

Yes, harbingerofdoom, he was hoping to go into the sixth form, to do sciences,
and to Greybitch, if you google Tirabad, on pages 2 and 3 of google you'll see that there are several schools in the area that use their facility so it's not necessarily the same school, our school wasn't one of the founding schools that jointly funded it, ours is in an adjoining borough, they've obviously got some arrangement to use it.

I knew many schools used it - I didn't know that they all did the gifted and talented trip. The selection criteria are obviously different and less fair.

Well, as adeu suggested, why not ask ?
Then, why not suggest that it would be seen as a better incentive (?) all round fairer process (?) if the criteria for being chosen were made clear to all pupils.... eg, Is it the two pupils who are "ranked" as best in the year (indeed, in what way do they 'rank' them - although that's a whole other question).... What happens if the same pupil is "top" in 2 or more subjects (which subject is given the '3rd place' spot... etc.
Not unreasonable at all if it is being advertised on the website as being a positive thing the school does, that it is transparent to everyone how people are chosen, even if it turns out it is a more subjective method like staff nominating someone who has put in the most effort, or shown the most improvement (which of course might not be the same people as get the best exam results).

I've come late to this thread but just wanted to add that my DD goes to a secondary school that uses Tirabad for school trips.

Her school's selection process for Gifted and Talented trips seems to be based upon pupil's CATs scores in Y7. My DD was invited on their Y9 G&T trip but turned it down as she had already been to Tirabad in Y7 and didn't enjoy it at all! (In fairness, some kids loved it).

Anyway, it seemed an odd way to select G&T pupils; some that were invited didn't really deserve it, and others - perhaps like the OP's DS - had been completely overlooked.

By the same token, my DD's school have selected a smallish group of pupils to do AS Critical Thinking in Y11 - again, they seem to have used some out-of-date Y7 CATs scores, to the annoyance of some pupils who may not have performed particularly well in CATS tests but are real high-flyers now.

Having a guess at the school they appear to have gone in May-if so this was maybe before the results-perhaps it would have been different if it had been July. To go in May, or even June if I have the wrong school, then they would have had to ask pupils at least 6 weeks before that I would imagine because it isn't cheap.

There is also the point that although he has done exceptionally well there are lots of very bright DCs around and they may have simply beaten him to a place.