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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

Aspergers or Gifted?

14 replies

cartwrid · 29/06/2012 15:36

Hi, My DS is 5 and I believe maybe gifted. His behavior is fine in school but we can have very violent outbursts at home over the most simple things its been this way on and off since he was 18mnths but since he started school he's been worse. He's very sociable and has lots of friends but gets v anxious about change/new situations. His behavior is now starting to affect DD (3) so we have got to the stage where we know that we need help. The GP said to speak to school, the Senco has now wrote to the GP for them to refer him to a pediatrician as she suspects aspergers. Having read the factsheets on the NAGC website I really don't think it is aspergers due to how capable he is socially. Is the pediatrician the right route to go down? We do need help but I want to make sure we get referred to the right place. I didn't mention gifted to the senco or his teacher.

OP posts:
Flimflammery · 29/06/2012 15:39

It's quite possible he is both. Sorry if that's not much help.

Derklugehans · 29/06/2012 15:48

I was going to say both, too.

mistlethrush · 29/06/2012 15:53

We've done that - seen the paed who told us we didn't need to see them, but possibly someone else - not yet followed that one up.

My experience is that when he was frustrated at school it was horrendous at home. This year, he's been much happier at school and the effect on our home life has been remarkable and a huge relief.

MaryBS · 29/06/2012 15:54

He can be both. How social he is at 5 isn't necessarily a good indication as any social differences tend to become more apparent as they grow older - my DS is 10 now and still likes playing with 5-7yos. I didn't recognise my DS in the info you can read up on (much less recognise myself - I was diagnosed a year after he was!) You are best off seeing a paediatrician. With a diagnosis, if he needs help, it will be easier to get.

grammar · 29/06/2012 15:59

Both too. He could be a high-functioning child with Asperger's. I think you should pursue the paediatrician route, if only to exclude the Asperger's. Then you can concentrate on the gifted side. But it is wise to get a diagnosis sooner rather than later with Asperger's and you may find other characteristics/traits emerge as he grows older/changes. You are then only left with the same questions and no answers if you reject this oppotunity.
Think Einstein (gifted ansd widely believed to have what is now called Asperger's)

cartwrid · 29/06/2012 16:11

wow thanks for the quick replies everyone, its really helpful to have other peoples opinions as I feel like I'm going around in circles! My step son (16) has autism so we have some understanding of the autistic spectrum by by no way experts. You're right @grammar, we need to see the pead first to eliminate. I think now we've made the decision to get help I'm being impatient! DS went to nursery full time from 1 and although he had a lot of friends he was always with the carer when we walked in the room. During my maternity leave he was 2 and we had the most horrendous violent tantrums but I made the excuse of new baby and nursery reduced to 1 day. He has always preferred the company of adults or older children but is very happy to play with children his own age. He told me this week that he wished he could spend more time talking to the teachers rather than playing but he's now allowed. The teacher told e that she's asked him to be quiet so other children can answer questions. He behaves perfectly at school but I think he then takes his frustrations out at home.
Thanks again for your comments, its really helped me to see the bigger picture, I need to take a deep breath and go down one route at a time! Thanks again.

OP posts:
littleweed10 · 29/06/2012 20:15

Both too here. My nephew has aspbergers but also talented and gifted in several areas.

madwomanintheattic · 29/06/2012 20:28

Heh heh.

'misdiagnosis and dual diagnosis of gifted kids' is an interesting read. It won't help, but it's interesting. Grin

There's tons of twice exceptional stuff out there, but tbh you need to clarify where he is on both issues to get a better picture. So it's ok to say ' I think he might be gifted', but if you think that and haven't mentioned it to teacher or second, then you need to think through why. (I'm guessing pushy mum accusations etc). Which leads you to potentially forcing out for a private psycho-Ed assessment to find out, if you want to be taken seriously but don't think school will assess.

And obv developmental paed referral for the asd side.

Ds1 is gifted its ADHD and aspergers traits, anxieties and phobias. (dd2 is gifted with cp, dd1 is gifted and entirely nt. she largely gets ignored, poor wee love)

Out of interest, what do school think? (other than it's worth referring for poss asd?)

Niceweather · 29/06/2012 20:30

Have you seen this book?? Misdiagnosis And Dual Diagnoses Of Gifted Children And Adults:
Adhd, Bipolar, Ocd, Asperger's, Depression, And Other Disorders by James T Webb (sorry, don't know how to post link but if you put it into Google, you can actually read quite a bit on Google Books or Amazon). It was recommended to us by the NAGC. In the end, we went to a Clinical Psychologist who said that our son did not have Aspergers despite several suggestions from teachers and one EP that he did. He certainly has some quirks and ticks a few boxes!

madwomanintheattic · 29/06/2012 20:36

That'll be the same one I recommended. Grin

It's interesting. But not a lot of help in trying to work out where your own child fits... Grin

Niceweather · 29/06/2012 21:41

Yeah! Nothing quite fits exactly but it's an interesting read and bits of it make sense.

cartwrid · 02/07/2012 10:11

Thanks everyone, just logged back on and seen all the great advice. @Niceweather I've just ordered the book from Amazon, thanks for that, even if I can just pick up a tiny beit of advice from it it will help.
@madwomanintheattic I've not mentioned gifted to the school as I don't want to seem pushy and I sometimes doubt myslef as I keep think they'd have picked up on it in school if he was?? When he was at nursery full time we didnt see so many outbursts but they did keep telling me that he was ready for school and they'd done as much as they could for him. I've spoken to the nursery manager since and she says that he's a very intelligent little boy and whilst he is sociable he did prefer to be helping the nusrery nurses out with jobs and constantly asking questions. His teacher is nice but its only her 2nd year of teaching so I don't know that she'd pick up on anything. She's said that she's had to ask him to hold back on the questions to give other children a chance. I do understand that she has 32 other kids but I wonder if this adds to his frusuration which he lets off as soon as he leaves school! Anyway school are wroting to the GP's to suggest a referreal to a pedatrician for possible aspergers. The Senco said we shoudl elimate that first and then look at other areas. I guess its been ongoing for years but now we've decidede to get help I'm just getting impatient! I just want to know what I can do to help him. Thanks again everyone

OP posts:
madwomanintheattic · 02/07/2012 14:34

Yy. Tbh it is reasonably common for yr r and yr 1 kids to struggle with the sharing the teacher's attention stuff, and often has v little to do with being gifted - kids get a lot of 1-1 time with mums/ dads and in the smaller ratio settings at nurseries, and so the transition to being one of 30 can be problematic! It's also reasonably common for nt kids to do what they are told at school and then let rip in the safety of home, where mum is a known quantity! Grin

I always find it interesting that they would rather go for pathologising the child, rather than looking for the often simpler solution of challenging them, to see if frustration with a boring and too easy curriculum is the issue. I'm assuming there are other flags they are considering which point more towards sn rather than gifted being the main issue, in this case.

Where the gifted issue is a genuine possibility, I see no particular virtue in concentrating on the sn route, though, tbh. At least not exclusively. The sends could quite easily have put him on the waiting list for the Ed psych that covers the school, for assessment. Interesting that they are pushing the ball back into your court for sn follow up. (gifted is the very lowest priority on school's radar for Ed psych. On the early years they are playing catch up with un-dx sn).

The route to dx is very long and there is no quick answer to everything. (plus, if he is as high functioning as he seems, then there will be little or no support for him that comes with the dx. So you will have a label, and an answer, but the practicalities of living with it will be very much down to you... And to what school are willing to put into place.) a lot of parents of high functioning kids look to read up on possibilities and start to work out coping strategies etc prior to dx.

For example, as the second has suggested possible aspergers, what difficulties does she see in school that he needs support with? Has she and the class teacher put an iep in place with realistic targets for him to be working to? He should already be listed on the school action register, with the referral to developmental pediatrician putting him on the school action plus register. So, he is an sn child. What targets does he have on his iep? At this point, they may choose to concentrate on the social side - and look to him learning and following the 'rules' of the classroom, if he is academically able.

And later, of he does turn out to have a dual dx, he should have iep running for both his gifted and sn targets.

Why are you waiting for school to write to the gp, out of interest? Far quicker for you to make an appointment and ask for a referral yourself? the letter will follow and can be added to the paper trail.

mynack · 03/07/2012 11:10

I agree with other MNs' comments especially re dual special needs and re referral to a paediatrician.
The paediatrician could advise about behaviour strategies whether or not he has Aspergers.
I have reflcted in other MN threads about my work as a support assistant in several primary and secondary schools, working with children with special needs, and would make 2 comments:
(i)the SENCO needs to be involved anyway, because having Aspergers and being g. and t. are both special needs which are recognized by law and may give an enttitlement to SEN provision;
(ii)in some ways they can be a little difficult to tell apart as Aspergers' children are typically 2high-functioning" like gifted children, and both types of dc may have unusual mind-sets which set the aprt from other children.

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